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Experienced Skier KILLED at Hunter Yesterday - Page 2

post #31 of 58
this is horrible, and it's also the sport we engage in.

my father was killed in '73 at the NJ resort where he was the ski school and racing director, and nastar pacesetter.
very experienced skier, intermediate terrain , nastar race...jersey....(!)

it happens consistently with experienced skiers on intermediate terrain...helmet wouldn't have helped my dad, either....fell in the course and took a bamboo gate through his right eye, continued out through the back of his skull...they outlawed bamboo gates in the US after that...
ski deaths can happen to anyone- be careful...and helmets DO cut casualty rates considerably, nonetheless.....
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
this is horrible, and it's also the sport we engage in.

my father was killed in '73 at the NJ resort where he was the ski school and racing director, and nastar pacesetter.
very experienced skier, intermediate terrain , nastar race...jersey....(!)

it happens consistently with experienced skiers on intermediate terrain...helmet wouldn't have helped my dad, either....fell in the course and took a bamboo gate through his right eye, continued out through the back of his skull...they outlawed bamboo gates in the US after that...
ski deaths can happen to anyone- be careful...and helmets DO cut casualty rates considerably, nonetheless.....
Holy shit......

I'm sorry for your loss, and am too shocked by that to say anything else.
post #33 of 58

Death in Middle Age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin
That's insane . . . Lower 42nd street is a wide open blue square trail. That's shocking.
He was insane and prabably skiing too fast for the conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u
.

Experienced skiers often ski at higher speeds than others, especially on groomed trails. It only takes one moment of inattention, or one minor mistake to send yourself sliding at high speeds. As much as I try to put it out of my mind, I always have that little voice in my head when I'm screaming down a groomed slope, or when I'm skiing close to the treeline.
Experienced but not Expert. You can include boarders in that statement as well. The most dangerous trails can be the blue square ones as so many men who are skiing beyond their abilities use them to ski fast and out of control. Expert skiers will use the intermediate slopes to work on their turns, build up their muscle strength and enjoy the scenery. I often see young racers screaming down these easy slopes in their free skiing. They aren't experts in my mind at all. Futhermore, If we have a big snowstorm in the remaining months of the ski season, expect some deaths amongst the >>experts<< skiing the backcountry of New England. I don't know how many of you remember Alex Stahl, but his death was less than a year ago. A lot of snow in a short time will fall on a slick surface once again this year. All the meatheads will be out there, too. Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn; Mother nature would be no exception. Sorry Vlad, but your Dad's death was a freak accidents. It's only a consolation to think that outlawing the bamboo gates would do anything to help. In fact Bamboo disappeared from use in the ski Industry as a result of the Vietnam War and it's aftermath. The source for the Bamboo was the Gulf of Tonkin.
post #34 of 58
I watch skiers now and see much greater speed today. The grooming allows you to fly. The equipement is so much better. My skis hold so well on ice that I don't slow down for it, like I used to. It seems everyone skis faster, including me.

When you fall it seems like you slide faster and farther. There is less falling too.

My bindings are Markers and they are crap. When I "open it up" I wonder how much they can be trusted. At slower speeds I ski real close to the edge of the trail with a false sense of security. That's where the snow is but it can be dangerous. Catch an edge and get hurt!

Conditions, equipment failure, judgement and other skiers are variables. There but for the grace of god go i.

My prayers are with the family.
post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATskier
He was insane and prabably skiing too fast for the conditions.
Experienced but not Expert. You can include boarders in that statement as well. The most dangerous trails can be the blue square ones as so many men who are skiing beyond their abilities use them to ski fast and out of control. Expert skiers will use the intermediate slopes to work on their turns, build up their muscle strength and enjoy the scenery. I often see young racers screaming down these easy slopes in their free skiing. They aren't experts in my mind at all. Futhermore, If we have a big snowstorm in the remaining months of the ski season, expect some deaths amongst the >>experts<< skiing the backcountry of New England. I don't know how many of you remember Alex Stahl, but his death was less than a year ago. A lot of snow in a short time will fall on a slick surface once again this year. All the meatheads will be out there, too. Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn; Mother nature would be no exception. Sorry Vlad, but your Dad's death was a freak accidents. It's only a consolation to think that outlawing the bamboo gates would do anything to help. In fact Bamboo disappeared from use in the ski Industry as a result of the Vietnam War and it's aftermath. The source for the Bamboo was the Gulf of Tonkin.
I knew the person who died. He was a good person with a family and a good skier. I am offended by you saying he is insane, I think your comments are out of line.

Here's what is ironic, I think it was one of his friends about a week earlier who fell hard, hit his head (had a helmet on) and knocked himself out in the same area of the accident and Sal was comforting him. Then a week later this happens.

Something even more ironic is that I got a phone call from Alec Stall's cousin (business stuff) yesterday am. She was representing some companies I had inquired into about buying a product, never spoke with her before.

Skis today allow acceleration out of the turn, sometimes people can't handle the forces that buildup and they lose it. With today's shaped skis, I think you also see more people catching edges in the transitioning parts of the turn. There was a significant increase in knee injuries when the skis first came out because so many people were catching edges and doing the splits. You can also wreck a knee at slow speeds with twisting falls, especially if you're an expert skier and have your bindings set on a high DIN.
post #36 of 58
there are so many mitigating factors leading up to this man's fatality at hunter, most of which we don't even know about, and never will, it's a little hair-triggered to say he was insane, although that doesn't rule out the possibility, by any means.
with regard to the bamboo gate thing after my dad's own casualty over 30 years ago, believe me, my mom still has the industry clippings regarding the banning of bamboo from USSA, etc., events afterward. our nation's involvement in 'indochina' was wrapping up at that time, anyway, and the bulk of our own bamboo import was coming from the philipines anyway, so trust me when i tell you that economic/geopolitical factors had little to do with said banning. the viet~nam conflict had little effect either way on bamboo imports into the US, as evidenced by the ensuing cheap furniture crazes of the mid-late 70s. you wanna discuss the gulf of tonkin's "rich" (later debunked, hence waning congressional support for the viet~nam conflict) , oil reserves, i'm here. as to bamboo....not so much.
staying on the subject, however, this guy who was killed at hunter (and i'm hearing far more about cardiac arrest as opposed to high-speed as the initial issue) went out in a very cool way for one of us.
I hope to meet my fate at high speed on skis or an alpine board, as well.
we're all going to go eventually, i raise my glass to the skier who goes out on his/her boards.....
(as opposed to my "namesake" family friend/pro skier who was shot by his girlfriend while off-piste... would have far preferred he went out on his boards, at high speed, tucking low into the next world..... )
post #37 of 58
We will probably never know what happened. We can speculate as to the cause of such an accident and perhaps piece together a reasonable scenario from which we will hopefull learn.

What were the conditons and how had they changed in the half hour prior to the accident?

Had he been skiing since the lifts opened? The accident was at 11:30.

My guess here is that he hit a soft patch and that the conditions had deteriorated from his prior runs, that with fatigue????

If he had, as in a similiar accident with a racer (at night), at Mountain Creek a few years back, had not pre-run the trail before letting a fast one loose, that would have been an error.

He was indeed a very accomplished skiier. I pose these as questions, not to cast blame.
post #38 of 58
skiing is an activity that always has the possibilty of death looming over it, esp. at higher skill levels.
whom could take offense at yuki's points?
for me, skiing a public trail is much like riding a sportbike on public hiways.
the risk is far greater than it is on the racecourse, and we have to adjust our line, velocity, etc. accordingly.
post #39 of 58
Thread Starter 

Right!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stache
Minor correction, I believe you were on Wanderer off the G-lift. And that sharp left is right below a steep pitch that either folks slow down for, or lose it on and collect themselves at the bottom before the turn.
Wonderama is a Blue Square under the C-lift.

But you are correct in that you should always ski in such a manner that you can turn or stop to avoid running into other persons or objects.
DAMN, you know your stuff!!! That is right. That is the exact spot and trail. Yes, I confused Wanderer with Wonderama.

Glad to see you validating my experience there. It certainly is a steep pitch suddenly and then this sudden turn. I remember thinking then that just because a trail is green or blue or black doesn't mean that 100 percent of that trail is the same color. That little stretch rates Blue at least--particularly if you have some speed.

Anyway, you must know every inch of the mountain if you knew exactly what I was talking about. LOL
post #40 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
this is horrible, and it's also the sport we engage in.

my father was killed in '73 at the NJ resort where he was the ski school and racing director, and nastar pacesetter.
very experienced skier, intermediate terrain , nastar race...jersey....(!)

it happens consistently with experienced skiers on intermediate terrain...helmet wouldn't have helped my dad, either....fell in the course and took a bamboo gate through his right eye, continued out through the back of his skull...they outlawed bamboo gates in the US after that...
ski deaths can happen to anyone- be careful...and helmets DO cut casualty rates considerably, nonetheless.....
Sorry to hear this.

This is a wakeup call for me, who is venturing onto black diamond trails now. I'm very mindful of controlling my speed.

On a blue and green, it gets tempting to allow myself to build speed. But I have to remember to always remain at a speed I know I can control.

But the scary fact is I'm sure your dad and the skier who died at Hunter the other day believed they were completely in control a second before they were not in control.

And that is scary. That tells me to keep the speed down.
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCJIM
I'm going to commit this to memory.
Me three!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #42 of 58
Quote:
as opposed to my "namesake" family friend/pro skier who was shot by his girlfriend while off-piste
"Murder in the backcountry"? There's a story here and you brought it up!

That segment on Wanderer at Windham is well-known by anybody who has skied that run.
post #43 of 58
Thread Starter 
[quote=njkayaker
That segment on Wanderer at Windham is well-known by anybody who has skied that run.[/QUOTE]

So now I don't feel as incompetent, LOL.
post #44 of 58
I finally found the reference for my previous comment about typical deaths:
http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/safety/fact...owboarding.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaa.org
Who gets fatally injured while skiing and snowboarding?
Most fatalities occur in the same population that engages in high-risk behavior. Victims are predominantly male (85 percent) from their late teens to late 30s (70 percent), according to Dr. Shealy. Less than 10% of fatally injured skiers and snowboarders are under 10 or over 50 years of age, but more than 16% of all skiers and snowboarders are in these age groups. Most of those fatally injured are usually above-average skiers and snowboarders who are going at high rates of speed on the margins of intermediate trails. This is the same population that suffers the majority of unintentional deaths from injury. For example, in 1995 this population suffered 74 percent of fatal car accidents and 85 percent of all industrial accidents, Dr. Shealy reports. Males comprise about 60 percent of skiing participants, and more than 75% of snowboarding participants. Snowboarders don't appear to be making the slopes less safe for their skiing peers, either, says Dr. Shealy. A study presented at the Ninth International Symposium on Skiing Trauma and Safety in 1993 indicated that 7.7 percent of all ski injuries are the result of skiers running into skiers, while only 2.6 percent of snowboard accidents are caused this way.
post #45 of 58
windham's one of the very few NY resorts i've skied in the past 30 years...great place.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd
I finally found the reference for my previous comment about typical deaths:
http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/safety/fact...owboarding.asp
i'd like to see the percentage of fatalities in skier-to-skier injuries.
also, this is an north american, more likely US-based study.
in the alps, many fatalities are resultant of crevasses, drops, etc.

there are crevasses in the alps where you can smell the rotting flesh of unfortunate ski casualties during the spring thaw.
death has always been and will always be an integral part of mountain activities, as it has always been a part of life itself.
post #47 of 58
Always sad to be reminded of what can happen out there, feel really sorry for this guy.

Hunter is pretty rad, I'd like to ski it in good snow....cliffs and stuff.

I've moved away from high speed this year, much less bombing around on hardpack, which is cool, but skiing trees is a bit safer. 25 mph in the trees is fairly quick, and hitting anything at that speed isn't too bad.
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
25 mph in the trees is fairly quick, and hitting anything at that speed isn't too bad.
Head on into a tree at 25 mph = death

Research what used to happen to some people in car crashes at that speed a couple of decades ago.
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
25 mph in the trees is fairly quick, and hitting anything at that speed isn't too bad.
Damn dude,

you are as much of a schmuck over here as your are at TGR. if you hit a tree at 25 you die. and I would be suprised if YOU can ski the trees at 25MPH. guess you'll just have come out here with the big boys and prove your skills!
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd braun
Damn dude,

you are as much of a schmuck over here as your are at TGR. if you hit a tree at 25 you die. and I would be suprised if YOU can ski the trees at 25MPH. guess you'll just have come out here with the big boys and prove your skills!
That's pretty harsh. Nobody (except a few guys who have had radar on them) really knows how fast they go on skis, so at worst he's just another guy who has a distorted sense of speed, or of his own ability. That's what's wrong with the internet: people are always dissing each other over trivial stuff. If I started an argument with every guy in the bar who thought he skied faster or better than me, I'd get beat up 97% of the days I ski.

BK
post #51 of 58
i hear thee!
i am awed and dismayed at the number of posters here who have flown off the handle at me about my own posts.
what the hell ever happened to skiing being fun?
hell, when i was young CSIA cert, me and my PSIA buddies busted each others chops mercilessly, day in and out, with wide, giggly smiles and much love and beer.

at F*****g ease, there, ladies!
it's only sliding on snow, grinning, and the internet
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
i'd like to see the percentage of fatalities in skier-to-skier injuries.
According to this article, about 10% of US fatalities are from collisions with others, and collisions of all sorts account for 90% of skiing fatalities at US resorts. I assume they don't include random fatalities such as heart attacks in this number, though, since that seems to be close to 50% of Colorado on-slope deaths in recent years.
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer
That's pretty harsh. Nobody (except a few guys who have had radar on them) really knows how fast they go on skis, so at worst he's just another guy who has a distorted sense of speed, or of his own ability. That's what's wrong with the internet: people are always dissing each other over trivial stuff. If I started an argument with every guy in the bar who thought he skied faster or better than me, I'd get beat up 97% of the days I ski.

BK
do you read the TGR forums? Highwaystar use to post there, I had no idea he posted here till I saw his name........There is some entertaining history on that board with senor highway(shittalkin)star.

that is all.
post #54 of 58
Actually 25 mph is not that fast. I can easily see someone skiing 25 mph through trees. I think part of the problem is people don't realize how fast they actually are skiing. For reference, the last time I took my 208s out I hit an average speed of 57 mph on one leg of a warm up run on a blue square. I had no idea I was going that fast until I got home and looked at the gps data.

HS, if you hit your noggin on a big tree at that speed, it could be the last thing you do, but I'm guessing you figure on being able to at least not hit any trees with your head at the slower speeds. It would still be unpleasant to clip one though.

As to ski partrol stopping out of control skiers/boarders, it's not easy to tell wether or not someone going striaght could turn if they had to.

I'm putting my money on a cardiac arrest. Sounds like a good way to go....mmmmmmm, greasy burgers and fries
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

I'm putting my money on a cardiac arrest. Sounds like a good way to go....mmmmmmm, greasy burgers and fries
This just in--burgers and fries dont cause heart attacks!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/07/health/07cnd-fat.html?hp&ex=1139374800&en=9fdd8d6b9954745d&ei=5 094&partner=homepage
post #56 of 58
Thanks for the 411. Bring on the poutine!
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd braun
Damn dude,

you are as much of a schmuck over here as your are at TGR. if you hit a tree at 25 you die. and I would be suprised if YOU can ski the trees at 25MPH. guess you'll just have come out here with the big boys and prove your skills!
HS is a pretty good skier. This isn't the thread to get into these type ****waving arguements.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
HS is a pretty good skier. This isn't the thread to get into these type ****waving arguements.
listen, if you talk shiat and don't back it up you are a hack! Highway Star may be an okay skier (prob not) but if you get yourself in an argument and proclaim your expertise, then you should be able to back it up. Highway
Star obviously chickened out and we/I called him out, and will continue too until he PUTS UP OR SHUTS UP! My guess is he is not that talented, cause if he were he would have shown up!

and when you make a comment about hitting a tree at 25 MPH and you don't get hurt. Well to me that says, Highway Star has no conception of speed or the consequences of taking that risk. He is a lying punk in my opinion and I hope to see him on the slopes someday so he can change my view of him. Due to the his past performance I am sure I will not see him on the slopes, around me anytime!

did you go and read the idiocy he created on the TGR board? go check it out!

That is all.
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