EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Masters GS ski conclusion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Masters GS ski conclusion

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Just got back from a night at the local masters wednesday race. Came 9th 3,5 sec behind winner. Best time clocked was 16,23. Best two runs out of 3 counted.

On my first run I tried a pair of 185cm Head GS RD FIS. Brutal on that short slope but time clocked was 17,84. The skis did not carve cleanly arround the gates so I had to skid them a bit before the turn and then I lock them onto their rails.
Second run on same skis whent slower.... 18,18. I had some problems with going too straight at the gates.
Third run, same skis, could not get the hang of it... 18,29.

The time equipment was still running so I swapped back to my 165cm Head iSL RD and ripped 17,32. I simply carved arround those gates with huge speed and the only skidding was from lack of controll on those short skis on the steep. My third run whent much faster I could feel and the one after that I didnt make it all the way through. Swapped back to the GS skis but did not even make it through the track. Felt like they did not turn at all. My SL felt like a turbocharged race car... lively and full of power.

My conclusion here is that the FIS 21m radius and up are simply too straight for small hill racing like this. My SL are a bit too short so what I need is probably the 177cm Head 1200 SW cross ski with a radius at 16m. Or just stick to my SLs. Any thaughts here by anyone?
post #2 of 20
Highly unscientific observation of masters racers in the US (men, anyway), perhaps paying a bit more attention to the ones who are actually pretty good:

- Lots of variety of brands: Fischer, Atomic (more of those two than anything else I think), Volkl, Rossignol, Salomon, K2, Elan, Stoeckli, etc.

- Lengths run from the low 180s down into the 170s.

- Sub 21-meter skis seem to be common, though I don't know the specs of all the models enough to put any hard figures on it. Atomic SX11; the non-FIS Fischer version. Even Atomic SL9s.

This isn't short hills either. Courses running 50-65 seconds (at the fastest ... considerably slower than that also).
post #3 of 20
Bad technique will always favor a shorter ski in GS; You can take the low line, pull shifty recoveries, and in general ski a bit more lazily. But there's a reason why the top USCSA racers and the top USSA Masters racers are still on true GS skis- if you're choosing the correct line and have the technique necessary to bend them into the shape necessary, they're faster.
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takecontrol618
Bad technique will always favor a shorter ski in GS; You can take the low line, pull shifty recoveries, and in general ski a bit more lazily. But there's a reason why the top USCSA racers and the top USSA Masters racers are still on true GS skis- if you're choosing the correct line and have the technique necessary to bend them into the shape necessary, they're faster.
OOH! Probably not the nicest way to put it, but there is some truth to it. However, without seeing the set, it's kind of hard to say which ski is most appropriate. If the course was only 16 or 17 seconds, your "GS" may have been set with only 15 or 16 meters of vertical distance. More of a "super slalom." That would make it tough to carve with a FIS gs ski.
post #5 of 20
He did say it was a Masters' course though, which leads me to believe that it was set correctly; if it were a Nastar or standard beer league set I can believe that it would be a bit tight.

I didn't mean to be disrepectful or anything in my post; for years I used a Rossi 9S in 174 for GS because it made it heaps easier for me.
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston

- Lots of variety of brands: Fischer, Atomic (more of those two than anything else I think), Volkl, Rossignol, Salomon, K2, Elan, Stoeckli, etc.

- Lengths run from the low 180s down into the 170s.

- Sub 21-meter skis seem to be common, though I don't know the specs of all the models enough to put any hard figures on it. Atomic SX11; the non-FIS Fischer version. Even Atomic SL9s.

This isn't short hills either. Courses running 50-65 seconds (at the fastest ... considerably slower than that also).
Consider these skis if you want the right tool for the job;

Dynastar Speed Course
Elan Ripstick
Fischer Worldcup RC
Fischer Worldcup SC
Head Worldcup iRace
Salomon Equipe GC
Stockli Laser SC
Volkl GS Racing

Cheers,

Michael
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takecontrol618
Bad technique will always favor a shorter ski in GS; You can take the low line, pull shifty recoveries, and in general ski a bit more lazily. But there's a reason why the top USCSA racers and the top USSA Masters racers are still on true GS skis- if you're choosing the correct line and have the technique necessary to bend them into the shape necessary, they're faster.
Well that explains why I have >21m GS skis.

More seriously, I'm not sure how top you mean when you say "top." Given that something in the vicinity of 90% of all masters racers are not among the top 10%, I suspect that sub 21m skis may indeed be in order for the mere mortals.
post #8 of 20
I think its already been said to death that the majority of skiers (and even many racers) can't handle a FIS legal GS ski- but that doesn't mean that one isn't the optimal tool for the job if you can use it correctly.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
I think its already been said to death that the majority of skiers (and even many racers) can't handle a FIS legal GS ski- but that doesn't mean that one isn't the optimal tool for the job if you can use it correctly.
That can also be said of race stock slalom skis, but I don't like the term correctly: many skiers have the strength and technique to use, and make perform, a stiff legal gs ski. What they lack is the tactics to use it "efficiently" in the course, especially with the newer men offering who very often have a 24> radius and are around 187-188cm long.

And, no offense, but no one should be racing on something legal if you're looking at a 17 seconds course. That's what, a few tight gates on a bunny hill ? Race that with a real cheater, 15-16m, max, unless you really know how to perform a WC start and skate all the way down the hill: legal skis need to be skied at the "legal" speed of real courses.
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffr
And, no offense, but no one should be racing on something legal if you're looking at a 17 seconds course. That's what, a few tight gates on a bunny hill ?
Isn't it possible to have a 17-second course that's exactly the same as a 51-second course, but just 1/3 as long?

They don't have a very big mountains in Finland, so far as I know. Okay, they probably don't have very steep mountains, either, but I wouldn't be too dismissive.
post #11 of 20
RD skis are built stiff to perform well at speed, at slow speed they perform miserabely unless one has perfect technique.
I guess some 5 seconds of straight down the hill skiing is needed to gather some speed.
There are some gates set on the top part of course too, so maybe 10 seconds are needed to gather the speed for RD skis to start performing
run is 17 seconds, but you gain some advantage from RD skis only last 7 seconds, first 10 secs you get advantage from using SL skis.
I would use my sl P50 skis from 4 years ago, which are now gs ski with 176cm/~17m.

karlis

PS i'm going to the finnish bunny slopes in a month!
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrettscv
Consider these skis if you want the right tool for the job;

Dynastar Speed Course
Elan Ripstick
Fischer Worldcup RC
Fischer Worldcup SC
Head Worldcup iRace
Salomon Equipe GC
Stockli Laser SC
Volkl GS Racing

Cheers,

Michael
Hi everybody and a million thanks to all of your replies. No we dont have many mountains in finland and they are not very steep eather. However, we have snow and I can ski at several small hills 20min driving from our capital city where I live.

Anyway, Im in a hurry so I will only post a question to barrettscv.... you reccomend the head WC iRace. That is my other option. The other one is the Head 1200 SW that seems to have the exact same spex as the irace. Maybe there is only a colour difference one being a GS ski and the other a Cross ski. Do you have any comment?
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
a question to barrettscv.... you reccomend the head WC iRace. That is my other option. The other one is the Head 1200 SW that seems to have the exact same spex as the irace. Maybe there is only a colour difference one being a GS ski and the other a Cross ski. Do you have any comment?
I have not been on both, so my opinion is limited. Very similar, but not identical specifications. The iRace is a little more user friendly, more of a consumer GS ski. The 1200 is said to be more demanding of skill and a little better to use on variable snow.

However, they both are are laminate construction high performance skis.

Cheers,

Michael
post #14 of 20
You could look at a softer 21M GS ski, like the Atomic FIS LT11, or one of the current crop of consumer GS skis with a sub-21M radius (GS11). However, I would agree that on a short hill you're probably better off on a ski with a 15-17M radius. Cross skis (SX11, 5 Star) are an option, as are race carvers (GS9, WC RC).

It really comes down to the course set. If they are trying to set an actual GS, learn to use what you have. If they're setting a typical beer league GS, you'll have more fun on a shaplier ski.
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike
You could look at a softer 21M GS ski, like the Atomic FIS LT11, or one of the current crop of consumer GS skis with a sub-21M radius (GS11). However, I would agree that on a short hill you're probably better off on a ski with a 15-17M radius. Cross skis (SX11, 5 Star) are an option, as are race carvers (GS9, WC RC).

It really comes down to the course set. If they are trying to set an actual GS, learn to use what you have. If they're setting a typical beer league GS, you'll have more fun on a shaplier ski.
Yeah, its more like beer league GS courses here at our small hills and for that the 17m GS skis are probably better. The reason I am asking about the Head skis is that our ski-school has an agreement with them so its easy to just stick with Head. As I told you guys before, I could ski the course this week faster with my SL skis than with the borrowed FIS GS.
post #16 of 20

Head GS

Quote:
The reason I am asking about the Head skis is that our ski-school has an agreement with them so its easy to just stick with Head. No we dont have many mountains in finland and they are not very steep eather.
tdk6 - You may not have any mountains but you have produced 2 of the finest technical skiers on World Cup now with Kalle and Tania. Wonder what times they would run on that beer league course? Anyway I notice the Head RD GS does come in a 175. Also this yellow SL carver by Head the "i.sl chip liquid metal race ski" does it come in 170 or 175? Either may allow you to not only stay with Head but carve those mini GS turns on your small hills in a way to make Pallander and Poutiainen proud.

- Fossil
post #17 of 20
Why don't you take a junior GS race ski around 175 cm with 19-21m radius and as made for juniors very soft flex?
If you have a short course, but some straigt sections a turny slalom isn't good as you loose on the straight parts and a hard GS RD (probabely around 24m radius in 185cm) is just too much for the small speed even if you could handle it at higher speeds. So take a real junior race ski or a womens GS race ski in 175 (which are often very similar to the longest junior GS skis but mostly a bit stiffer. Like Atomic LT11 2*Titanal vs 1*Titanal for their junior GS11 176cm, both 21m radius)
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike
You could look at a softer 21M GS ski, like the Atomic FIS LT11, or one of the current crop of consumer GS skis with a sub-21M radius (GS11). However, I would agree that on a short hill you're probably better off on a ski with a 15-17M radius. Cross skis (SX11, 5 Star) are an option, as are race carvers (GS9, WC RC).

It really comes down to the course set. If they are trying to set an actual GS, learn to use what you have. If they're setting a typical beer league GS, you'll have more fun on a shaplier ski.
The LT and GS race stock skis are identical to eachother. I have tried both and they feel exactly the same, not to mention the fact that I have confirmed it with several Atomic USA reps. I have the GS11 Race Stock and can pretty much tell you that everything people wrote in here is true. If you aren't going mach speeds, you will probably ski like crap on them. They are meant to be skied hard and fast, no other way. That said, I'm 140lbs 6 feet and ski on 183's. If the course is tight GS, these aren't the ones I'm wearing, I go for something like a 176 Race Stock. It takes force to bend these, something you have a lot more of at higher speeds. I would definitely agree and say a non-stock or shorter ski would be perfect for you. Try one out, it can't hurt.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takecontrol618
Bad technique will always favor a shorter ski in GS; You can take the low line, pull shifty recoveries, and in general ski a bit more lazily. But there's a reason why the top USCSA racers and the top USSA Masters racers are still on true GS skis- if you're choosing the correct line and have the technique necessary to bend them into the shape necessary, they're faster.
There's also a reason WC racers use 165cm, 13m radius skis on courses with 15 meters of vertical distance between gates. Need I say more?
post #20 of 20
His initial post led me to believe that he was on a true GS set. I don't recommend a FIS legal GS ski to anyone racing beer league or NASTAR type sets.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Masters GS ski conclusion