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Can't keep my Heel down

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I picked up a set of Kryptons before the snow started flying this season. I went with the same size 28.5 I used for the last 5 years in a pair of Nordica Grand Prix's, and they felt great in the store. 25 ski days later, my feet feel like they're swimming, and I can't keep my heels from moving 2cm up and down inside the liner. The movement is solved when I tighten the heel strap down almost all the way, but that creates pain all over me feet.:
I tried heel lifts hoping to fill some of the space, but that created pain in my arches so I took them out, and went back to cranking down that middle strap. Someone suggested putting an x with duct tape underneath the heel, but I'm not sure how this should be down. Any advice or similar situations would help big time. Thanks Bears.

Huck
post #2 of 22
1) do you mean your heel lifts while you ski, or that you are able to lift it while you are standing around in your ski boots. there's a pretty big difference between the two.

2) how far does it lift just while skiing?

3) what was your shell fit? how much room behind your heel when you put your bare foot in the shell, with toes touching the front of the inside boot shell?
post #3 of 22
there are several remedies worth trying to help prevent heel lift.
The simplest is a set of L-shaped pads that are place around the malleoli (balls of the ankle) on either side of the Achilles. Sometimes cork is used as a more permanent fix.
A good bootfitter could likely offer you a number of things worth trying.
post #4 of 22
Maybe if you pad the tongue of the boot it will result in better heel retention.
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Uncle Crud,
The shell size is 28.5(I don't know the exact mm size) and I had 2.5 fingers behind my heel. My nordica's were 28.5 and they fit like a glove(very strange.) I have only tested my heel lift while standing around. I assumed if it could move that much, it was moving around while skiing.
Thanks
post #6 of 22

switch boots

what happens a lot is that boots tend to stretch a lot after a couple days of skiing, i dunno if you can get them molded to your foot, if you dont next time get some boots with termic fit or hotform anything that you can get molded to you fit, and usually take them tight because they will stretch, there is little you can do to find the level of comfort you had..... dont forget boots are different brand from brand, and usually a boot thats 28 has the same core as the 28.5 but the 28.5 is larger just a little bit..... thrust me i sell hundreds of boots a year in sports experts back in canada!
post #7 of 22
huck, I have the exact same boot, the exact same size and had the exact same problem (go figure)

now my set up is a little different - I replaced the liners with Thermoflexes, added cork footbed which also took up more space, but still had a little heel lift

so I added a shim to the footboard, added C-pads around my ankles on the outside of the liner (see link below for how to get some) and now the fit is perfect

also added a pro-Booster strap and may also add a tongue pad if it ever gets packed out and loose again

give these solutions a try and see if it works, but I am a little worried about your "2.5 finger" space because that's more than I had to deal with

http://www.tognar.com/boot_heater_wa...snowboard.html
post #8 of 22
oh, and by the way, there were lots of threads about how poor the stock Krypton Pro liner is, that's why most people found a better replacement for it (either Thermoflex or Conformable)

if you still have the stock liner, you ought to ask your retailer to get the replacement (which they will give you for free to anyone who bought last year's boot - assuming your boot is last year's left over sold to you before the season)

and if you do so, ask for the Krypton Cross liner as the replacement, not the Pro, because the Cross is the better liner (heat moldable)

edit: PM me if you've got any other questions, I check back on these random threads infrequently these days
post #9 of 22
first off, lets address the problem...
You had a boot that fit really well (the nordica) and you chose to buy a boot that was obviously too big because it had the same "shell size" as your previous boot? Its not that boots "stretch" its that the padding in the liner "packs out". 25 days sounds about right for things to be nice and settled and now that they are you're realizing that the boots that were nice and comfy in the store are now too big.

Did you get them at Bob Wards?

If you got them at a true ski shop, they ought to be good about trying to help you out... because they sold you boots that are too big. This can mean aftermarket liners, padding, or getting a custom footbed made (which you ought to have and will take up more room in the shell)
If you got them at bob wards, I'm not sure what to say. They might not be as a agreeable to help out (nor have the knowledge to) But their return policy might be good where you can exchange them for a smaller size... not sure how they work it.

Bring them back to where you got them, you paid good money and they ought to work with you to make things right.
post #10 of 22
Yes go back to the boot fitter that sold you the boot's. You did go to a boot fitter didn't you ???

They will help you but at this late stage, it may cost you $$.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
thanks for getting back everyone! I did have some non weighted corks made right after I bought the boots, and they seem to work well. I bought the boots in Minnesota and now I'm out in Big Sky country for the winter, so that kinda shuts me down from any free help. I did ask for the replacement liners right after I bought the boots, and received the new pro model liner. Matter of fact, I could not see any difference at all between the new and the old liners, hope I didn't get dooped.
I have read, there can be problems with an after market liner such as intuition be to short and cutting off circulation at the ankles. Does anyone know if they have changed this problem? I'm not familiar with heat moldable liners what so ever, where could I pick up a pair of thermoflexes or conformables?

Thanks a lot for all the help Bears

Huck
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckfinn
Uncle Crud,
The shell size is 28.5(I don't know the exact mm size) and I had 2.5 fingers behind my heel. * * * Thanks
Huck, your problem is right here. 2.5 fingers? too large, for sure. unless you are a strictly near-flat green bunny hill skier.

I would go back to the shop where you bought them and ask why they fit you in such a large boot. That is, unless you insisted on buying a bigger size when they warned against it.

All boots will "pack out" and gain space as you ski in them. This is why you need to fit snugly in the shop. Any good, reputable, knowledgeable ski shop will help you get this precise and practical type of fit.

I would aim for one finger behind the heel. This will get you around 25 ski days, maybe 30, on your liner boots. At about that point, they will get big and will need either modification with extra padding, or liner boot replacement.

also, check with nolo -- send her a PM -- and ask who she thinks is the best bootfitter over in Bozeman. it used to be a guy at PhD skis, but I have heard that guy moved away.
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Uncle Crud,
Thanks for the lead on bootfitters! I don't have the means to get back to Minnesota, so I'm hoping the right bootfitter can help with the space issue. If I were to buy a thermoflex liner, would that help fill in the extra room of the boot?
Anyway thanks for your time.
Huck
post #14 of 22
the t-flex may or may not help. to account for that huge disparity between your foot and your shell volume, the liner boot will have to have a lot more than the typical amount of padding. in recent years t-flex liner boots have become thinner and less likely to be able to help with the problem.

to be fair, this is just general advice I'm giving. only someone who's a skilled bootfitter and who has examined the foot, boot and fit would have a good basis for a definite answer on the t-flex Q. I'm inclined to think it's risky enough to warrant going to a bootfitter first.

a big problem with the too-big shell is that your boot doesn't respond quickly enough. as your skills improve, you want more precise and faster responses to the input you give through your boots. a too-big boot works against you here.

if you're skiing regularly, it will be good for your skiing to get a nice, precise fit.
post #15 of 22
Using an aftermarket liner that allows for additional (non-compressible!) material to be added may be your best choice--but finding the right bootfitter is the key. One of the reasons that I picked up the ZipFits for my XTs is that I can add fill if I need to in order to keep it snug. A Neoplush ZipFit may work for you to fill up some of that space, but the shell is definitely the wrong size for you.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckfinn
thanks for getting back everyone! I did have some non weighted corks made right after I bought the boots, and they seem to work well. I bought the boots in Minnesota and now I'm out in Big Sky country for the winter, so that kinda shuts me down from any free help. I did ask for the replacement liners right after I bought the boots, and received the new pro model liner. Matter of fact, I could not see any difference at all between the new and the old liners, hope I didn't get dooped.
I have read, there can be problems with an after market liner such as intuition be to short and cutting off circulation at the ankles. Does anyone know if they have changed this problem? I'm not familiar with heat moldable liners what so ever, where could I pick up a pair of thermoflexes or conformables?

Thanks a lot for all the help Bears

Huck
As Steve said in the previous post - the ZipFit liner could be your solution (but it is costly). I just put the ZipFit Plug Leather in my Kryptons and they're a match made in heaven.

I've tried multiple liners from Intution and they're just not right for this boot (at least not yet). Intution is supposed to ship me their newer taller version of the liner within the next month. Although now I wonder if I'll even use it (maybe I'll stick it in a Flexon to have a firmer flexing Flexon available).
post #17 of 22
if you're down in bigsky, swing by grizzley sports.
Intuition liners CAN be tight. But the right bootfitter ought to know to pad certain areas... ankles, toes, any problem areas with foam. They will also put a toe cap on to give your toes a little room and cover it all with a liner sock before you put the liner on to heat it. Up here in Bozeman, i saw some tody for $170. With effort, they can be found cheaper.
post #18 of 22
Boot is too big.....end of story.....get the right size.....nothing in the world is going to make a "too big" boot fit. Don't fall into the mindset that this boot can be fixed. You'll end up losing too much quality skiing.
post #19 of 22
raichles/krytons alway fit smaller I go 299 lange (size 7), 295mm salomon (size25), 291 rachlie (size 24)

try a second insole below the one you like, but really all the solutions are 1/2a$$ed as the shell is too big and that is, and will be, the problem
post #20 of 22
my stock liners pack out after 3 to 4 hours then are a pain in ass to get to feel right..not heel lift but they do pack out easy ...next day same thing..same boot.. same liners..my heat moldable liners i have issue with a stumpy heel"same width all the way along achilles tendon no defintion to said heel" cant get a good heel pocket with out padding on right foot ...left foot like glove
post #21 of 22
Skidbump - I didn't mention this to you in the PM I sent, but IMHO the heel hold down is one of the areas where the Intuition liner is really lacking. I've found that the design of the original dual-density Thermoflex (with the stitched in firmer foam around the back and ankle) provides a much better solution to developing a solid heel pocket. Intuition's best solution is the "Power Wrap" which unfortunately can become un-glued and shift/roll into the wrong places.

If the ZipFit isn't your thing (due to the feel, design, or price) then I suggest you try to get yourself a pair of the dual-density Thermoflex liners (PM barretscv).

What I'd really like to see is Intuition adopt the original dual-density Raichle design using their improved Ultralon foam - that would be ideal.
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks again everyone! At this point, I've used the boots to many times, and I'm doubtful any exchange can be made with the original seller. I appreciate all of the advice about liners and will begin troubleshooting until I'm satisfied. Ultimately, it sounds like I'm gonna need a new set of boots, but that ain't happening any time soon.
Cheers

Huck
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