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Diamond stone or file

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hi all;
I use a "Multi Edge Tuner" for keeping up my side edge bevel; the thing came with a file. I also have an assortment of diamond files that fit the tool.

The question is when maintaining the side edge, should I use the file or diamond? I usually have some burrs after a day out and like to remove them, (East: rocks, gravel, you know!).

I don't use this tool on the base edge, and pretty much leave that alone unless a serious ding and then I'll use a "Swix Pro Base Bevel Guide" with a diamond stone.

Thanks!
C.B.
post #2 of 18
You only want to use a file to set your edge bevel or if some serious damage has occured to your edge. Use the diamond stones to maintain the sharpness of your edge. Start with a coarse stone and work your way to a fine stone. You shold also be deburring your base edge with an Arkansas stone or polishing stone after you sharpen your side edges. I also like to run an Arkansas stone on my side edge after I finish using my fine diamond stone.
Something else to consider.... get a true side bevel guide. Your work will turn out a lot better then when you use a multitool tuner. SVST side bevel guides are sweet!
post #3 of 18
The diamond stones are "harder" than most files. Edge burrs caused by running over stones, etc. are very hard. When a ski runs over a stone or other hard [metal] object, excessive heat is generated and this heat can actually temper the malformed steel. You will want to use the diamond stones to cut down these types of burrs.

Also most files tend to remove too much material. As indicated in the post above; files should only be used to set the edge angles. Once edges are 'set'; put the files away and use only stones to sharpen edges.

Another hint is too sharpen your edges by stoning the side edge more than the bottom edge. Taking too much steel off the bottom edge will effectively lower it compared the adjacent base material or ski bottom. Eventually, the bottom material will have to be stone ground to compensate, or equalize, for all the base edge material that was removed. Edges on the side do not have this issue.
post #4 of 18
Your question is a very good one and is very difficult to respond to for several reasons:
1) How much actual ski time do you get before each sharpening session?
2) What do you ski most often?
3) What side bevel you're running?

Something like a race ski, that skis only the hardest snow and ice and that is set at 87, will need to see the file more often than a powder ski at 89. The more acute the angle, the harder the snow, the longer a ski is being use (duh) the duller the edge after an outing.

I've seen skis tuned in at 86 or even 85, that were as dull as a butter knife after two runs on an icy gs course. As ski that dull would need to be worked on with a file since the bevel needs to be reset correctly: no sane amount of stone work would make that ski sharp again. Running a stone before filling is always good tough, because nicks and burrs may cause the file to skip.

PS: Sharpening (with diamond stones) after each session on the snow may seem insane, but in the end, it only takes a few minutes to get a sharp ski to top-notch condition, while a dull ski might take 50 minutes, or even more, to even get sharp.
post #5 of 18
I use a Moonflex 100 grit diamond file followed by a 200 grit moonflex. I only file, using a short piece (1 1/2") of a panzor file when needed. I use a 3 degree SVST edge guide. I have one for each moonflex. I'm to lazy to keep changing files for one edge.

I only run a 100 grit moonflex in a base guide tool down the base edge when I'm going to wax. That's so the iron won't get scratched.

I have a pair of Volkl AX3's with around 100 day's on them in 2 season's, they have only been stoneground 2 or 3 times. They have lots of edge left and still hold well on ice. I touch up the edges after everytime I ski them.

I don't detune or bother to polish the edges after I use the moonflex. I use a low Flouro all temp wax Dominator HyperZoom and have no problem going fast or holding an edge.
post #6 of 18
Please forgive the temporary hijack. I also use a multi tool, (skivisions) but it has other kinds of stone inserts, not diamond. I believe they are ceramic. Do they do basically the same thing? I will stick with it as it's idiot proof and well . . .
post #7 of 18
A ceramic edge stone is a polishing stone for your edges. The ceramic stones are not like an Aluminum Oxide stone; AlOx is rougher and has a light cutting effect.
post #8 of 18
Mom,

I use the SkiVisions product. I have the Aluminum Oxide Sharpening stones, 300 grit stones and the ceramic stones. I touch my edges up after every day of skiing using the ceramic stones. About every 5 days, I use the 300's followed by the ceramics. It keeps my edges sharp.

I have the sharpening stones for my kids skis, I do not tune them up very often.
post #9 of 18
Thanks guys. now i'm not sure what the heck it is I actually have. have them in three 'grits' from rough to fine. I'll have to dig up the old catalog and see. Do the sharpening stones deal with rock damage the way a diamond stone does? How about the ceramic ones?
post #10 of 18
You'll want to use the diamond stones first to knock off the harden edge, then use you sharpening stones. I don't use a ceramic stone. If your a top racer it may help, but for most of us it's a waste of time.

I lot of the tuning and speed things people do are not worth the effort. Heres a story. I got this from a friend whoes son is a J3.

Last season one have the top J3's at Okemo skis were missing for the second run. All he had was his beat up slip skis, hadn't been tuned in a long time. He had to race on them. He uses these skis to play in the park and woods when the snow is sparse. He won.

It's the skier not the skis.

Don't spend a lot on stuff you don't need.
post #11 of 18
thanks Max! I'm not going for speed, just a recreational skier who likes precision. Problem is, Skivisions doesn't have a diamond stone insert and I don't want to risk screwing up the bevel by using one freehand. I've had that done to me before with awful results. Doe you all know if the stones that come with the Skivisions multi-tune function like a diamond stone to get off rock hardened bits? There was another thread recently about cleaning them which is helpful. Just trying to figure out the difference between the stones in the skivisions and a normal diamond stone. Thanks.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom
thanks Max! I'm not going for speed, just a recreational skier who likes precision. Problem is, Skivisions doesn't have a diamond stone insert and I don't want to risk screwing up the bevel by using one freehand. I've had that done to me before with awful results. Doe you all know if the stones that come with the Skivisions multi-tune function like a diamond stone to get off rock hardened bits? There was another thread recently about cleaning them which is helpful. Just trying to figure out the difference between the stones in the skivisions and a normal diamond stone. Thanks.
Tognar's website has a list of the stones that you can purchase for the SkiVisions sharpener.
post #13 of 18
If I were you, I'd use what you have for the rest of this season. Then buy some Moonflex diamond stones and edge guides. That is what a lot of us use.

Your stones will be good for now, but the Moonflex are what you really want to use.

You'll need to use the sercet sauce with the Moonflex. Make your own by mixing 50/50 Denatured Alcohol and water. Don't spend $32.00 for 8oz out of the catalogs. I went to Sonma's web site, they make the Moonflex stones, and found that out.
post #14 of 18
OK, thank you. end of hijack...;-)
post #15 of 18
Personally I file more often than the rest of the posters on this thread. Only talking about the side edge of course. I diamond stone after each day of skiing if there's any burrs (which in the East is most days.) But I also file my side edges every once in a while. Skied 28 days so far and have filed 4 times since the beginning of the season. I like the edge to be sharp, especially with all the thaw/freeze cycles we've had.

I find filing down to some nice fresh new metal gives a sharper edge. I don't see any disadvantage to doing this, as there's enough edge to last a few seasons this way I'm sure.

Just my $.02.
post #16 of 18
I can agree with that. 36 day's so far, I filed may be 5 or times. That's one or two times down the edge with my short Panzor file.
post #17 of 18

Diamond Stones for SkiVisions Tool

Although they once made diamond stone inserts (I used to have some), for some reason they stopped. However, if you're a little handy, you can make your own.

I had an old DMT stone lying around and used a hack saw (from the plastic side), to cut 2 pieces to the right size.
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordopost
The diamond stones are "harder" than most files. Edge burrs caused by running over stones, etc. are very hard. When a ski runs over a stone or other hard [metal] object, excessive heat is generated and this heat can actually temper the malformed steel. You will want to use the diamond stones to cut down these types of burrs.

Also most files tend to remove too much material. As indicated in the post above; files should only be used to set the edge angles. Once edges are 'set'; put the files away and use only stones to sharpen edges.

Another hint is too sharpen your edges by stoning the side edge more than the bottom edge. Taking too much steel off the bottom edge will effectively lower it compared the adjacent base material or ski bottom. Eventually, the bottom material will have to be stone ground to compensate, or equalize, for all the base edge material that was removed. Edges on the side do not have this issue.
Gordo is EXACTLY right ... use the stone, then file (when you need to remove some real damage) then go back with the stone and finish with cermamic.
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