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Dominator ZOOOOOOOM - Page 2

post #31 of 38
2/21/06 at 12:02pm
Just bought the HyperZoom today! I will hopefully test this weekend. Looking for Slix.....
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post #32 of 38
2/21/06 at 1:52pm
Oh all right ... I'll give it a try so I just placed an order for Dominator Race Rocket and Butter. That seemed to be the cheapest combination to get a broad temp/snow range. They'd better be fast waxes or there is going to be hell to pay ...

I'd agree that for general waxing any cheap temp appropriate carbon wax is fine. I also know that cheap carbon wax is way better than the wrong expensive fluoro wax or wrong overlay, which seem to have much smaller windows than the cheaper carbon waxes.

My philosophy on wax is that I don't expect it to win the race for me ... I just don't want it to lose it for me.

wax on ...
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post #33 of 38
2/23/06 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston
The patent does not appear to claim the use of the surfactant as a protected invention.
There were a lot of claims in the patent, and some of them seemed to me to specifically cover the use of particular surfactants and wax/substrate/carrier materials.

Quote:
- So far as I can tell, Peter Hertel is a guy who owns a skateboard shop in Palo Alto.
I dunno about Peter Hertel, but if you order Hertel wax, it comes from a skate shop in Santa Clara, which Terry Hertel seems to be in charge of.

Quote:
- Some sources attribute the "hot sauce" formula to an actual chemist named Peter Donnelly (a former business partner of Hertel's), while the Hertel website claims "Hertel ski waxes were all invented by Terry Hertel."
The packaging that came with my Racing FC 739 wax states that Terry Hertel contracted a physical chemist to formulate the waxes.

Quote:
- Misspelling of technical terms, like "hydroscopic" for "hydrophobic," and "purfluorocarbon" for "perfluorocarbon."
It seems that "hydroscopic" is more likely a misspelling of "hygroscopic" which describes a material that readily absorbs water. Now that is pretty much opposite in meaning to "hydrophobic", so if the context indicates that "hydrophobic" was what was meant, then that is a big mistake. I get the impression that Terry is a very enthusiastic guy who is excited about his product but doesn't understand it on a scientific level. That's why he hired someone else to design it, don't you think?

Quote:
- I don't know ... doesn't the fact that their 3/4-lb cosmetic-second blocks of wax have been continuously available for months, if not years, strike you as a bit odd?
The description indicates that these blocks are generated every time a batch of wax is run, so it's not surprising that they have been continuously available.

The Racing FC739 seems to be decent stuff. I'm still experimenting, so I can't say it's the best ever or that it's terrible stuff. But it's decent, and the Racing FC costs about the same as a comparable amount of Swix at a local sporting goods store. I may try one of the Dominator products when I run out of Hertel.
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post #34 of 38
2/25/06 at 9:16pm
The only thing you should clean with base cleaner is the tops of your skis not the bases. Base cleaners/chemicals are way bad for your bases... drys them out.

If you want to remove wax... just hot scrape your skis. i.e. Apply a warm weather wax (they are softer)... then scrape right away... before it hardens. Hot scraping will remove the gunk and old wax from your bases.

Ask anyone who tunes ski for racers... they don't use base cleaner. Most speed event skis have layer upon layer of wax on them. The more wax coatings on your skis the faster they are. Many racers on the world cup are racing on skis from a few years back... just new top sheets. Most world cup race tuners just wax and then ski on skis all off season... just to get the wax to build up in the skis. They wouldn't take all that hard work away by using base cleaners.

Places like the links below charge $100+ to hot box wax into your skis. These are some of the best race tuners in the country.
http://www.edgewiseskitunes.com/edgeservice.html?ref=8
http://www.theraceroom.com/ski_wax.php
http://starthaus.com/?department=speedskileaseprogram

Ski Fast

Alex

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickitynac
use a base cleaner and remove it with chemicals.
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post #35 of 38
2/25/06 at 9:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickitynac
Hertel is the only all temp ive treid that performance wont drop off at the extremes.
Any all temp wax will drop off at extremes. Read any of the literature out on there on waxing... once snow gets below 15F or so... wax doesn't matter so much. When you get below 15F... most racers just use a plain old cheap hydrocarbon wax (like Swix CH4). Fluro waxes won't do you much good... too cold and not enought humidity in the snow to make them work.

Hitting the right wax will matter much more when you are in the high humidity ranges and over say 25F... once you get above freezing especially. If you hit it right... you will be FAST! If you don't... you will be SLOW!

Look at the info below
http://www.tognar.com/waxing_tips_ski_snowboard.html

COLD SNOW = SLOWER GLIDE
 Cold slow is usually dry snow...in fact, somewhere around -20*F (-30*C), snow feels more like beach sand and bases are really slow...whether correctly waxed or not. Warmer temperatures usually create more moisture in the snowpack, which provides greater lubricity and helps the base slide...up to a point, since too much water creates suction that again slows your glide. Ideal glide usually occurs at temperatures just below freezing (28 to 30*F, or -2 to -1*C...depending on the moisture content). Tests conducted by the Ski Research Group at Eagle River Nordic in Wisconsin (using nordic skis gliding downhill through a speed trap on a 12* slope) produced the following results:
Snow Temp Glide Speed % Difference
28*F 18mph --
20*F 17mph 5% slower
10*F 15mph 11% slower
-4*F 12mph 33% slower
-10*F 8mph 56% slower
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post #36 of 38
2/25/06 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodee
Oh all right ... I'll give it a try so I just placed an order for Dominator Race Rocket and Butter. That seemed to be the cheapest combination to get a broad temp/snow range. They'd better be fast waxes or there is going to be hell to pay ...

I'd agree that for general waxing any cheap temp appropriate carbon wax is fine. I also know that cheap carbon wax is way better than the wrong expensive fluoro wax or wrong overlay, which seem to have much smaller windows than the cheaper carbon waxes.

My philosophy on wax is that I don't expect it to win the race for me ... I just don't want it to lose it for me.

wax on ...
If you want fast wax and want to use Dominator...
- race zoom (new snow)
- race zoom (old snow)
- butter (for anything over say 30F - snow temp)

The bullet wax is pretty good for very cold snow temps. It is much easier to scrape then other cold waxes.

The race rocket is good for in between runs. Will only last one or maybe two runs through a GS course.

Ski Fast! - Alex
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post #37 of 38
2/25/06 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodee
I've never had good results with the low/mid fluoro waxes - especially the Swix LF products. I've also not been all too impressed on the performance of their HF waxes ... I do however always have good results with the cheap CH waxes (zero fluoro).

Any experience with Dominator versus Swix ? (except for obvious price).

Also, those of you that notice a glide difference between the Zoom and Hyper Zoom - got anything to back up the difference in glide (speed trap type test or training runs?) or is it just a "feel" thing?

My experience with the low fluoro is that if you hit conditions just right (low humidity) they're good, but if it's not within the window the skis will be sucky slow. I've never been able to find that window though.
I have made the switch to Dominator from Swix. Dominator's zoom waxes are much easier to use then Swix. With Swix you have to buy a lot of different waxes for different conditions. The worst part is... if you wax for the wrong condition... you are SLOW! I did it earlier this year... wax'd a little too cold... slowed me down. If I had wax'd Dominator... I would have been good to go.

As far as the wax difference from the zoom to hyper zoom. I haven't used the hyper zoom. I have used both the zoom and the race zoom. The race zoom is FAST! You can tell just by the flow and smell of it when melted that is high fluro. As far as speed trap tests... I don't think you will find any one giving out that info (racers keep their secrets). I wouldn't race w/o race zoom on my skis.

Ski Fast - Alex
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post #38 of 38
2/25/06 at 9:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickitynac
Hertel did invent the first flourocarbon wax mixture in the 70s. There wax has been used by many racers and even the olympic ski team which has won medals on hertel wax(they preffer the white gold 1,000$ an ounce). Their formula is faster and longer lasting than any Ive tried.
Hertel is the original and is better than any of the many copies on the market now.
I personally haven't tried Hertel wax in some time.

In my opionion and those of the people I race with here in the Northeast... not worth the time. It is more of a snowboard wax like Zardoz or something.

The wax players for racing are...
- Swix
- Toko
- Dominator
- Holmenkol

Most masters racers and junior racers right now are using Domniator. Once you get high end... you might go to Holmenkol (they give it away at race academies here on the Northeast).

Earlier this winter I asked around to some of the ski race suppliers... Race Place, Tognar, Artech... they all said they sell more Dominator then all of the other waxes combined.

Dominator is great... it is a high performance wax... and is still all temp. Way better then the all temp stuff from the other companies above. Nice thing with Dominator... you don't have to buy a ton of different waxes. It is much cheaper since you don't have all the different waxes.

Stick with the Dominator Zoom (zoom, race zoom, butter, bullet)... you won't be disapointed... I haven't been so far! I have tried all of the above waxes... Dominator Zoom is my pick for speed, price, and ease of use.

Don't ignore the lower end Dominator hydrocarbon waxes (zoom, zoom renew, etc). They might not be as fast as the fluro stuff... but your ski bases need the hydrocarbon wax to keep the bases full. Fluro wax drys out your ski bases. You should only use fluro wax when it really matters... race day!

Ski Fast - Alex
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