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New ski ritual

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
What is the first thing you guys do with new skis? I saw the faq, but wondering what the majority of you guys do. I don't know how to wax or tune or anything, so I was planning on bringing them to a place to get it tuned. Should I just get it waxed? and how many times? or wax and sharpen edges?
post #2 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by fr0sty
What is the first thing you guys do with new skis? I saw the faq, but wondering what the majority of you guys do. I don't know how to wax or tune or anything, so I was planning on bringing them to a place to get it tuned. Should I just get it waxed? and how many times? or wax and sharpen edges?
Don't tune your new skis. Just put have them waxed (often the shop does this when you buy them anyway & they do have a thin coat from the factory) on them & go skiing!
post #3 of 29
Definitely don't tune them until you've tried them. Do have them waxed or do a wax job yourself. The factory waxing is minimal. Ideally, you should wax them one or two times with a soft wax scraping the wax off while its still warm. This cleans the bases plus softer wax does a better job penetrating into the base giving your subsequent waxings something to bind to. After doing the warm scrapes hot wax them with the wax you intend to use.

If you're lazy (like I often am) you can skip the warm scrape steps and just clean the bases & hot wax them. Use a citrus based cleaner (not a citrus scented cleaner) to clean the bases.
post #4 of 29
If it's a race ski, have them FULLY tuned.

Actually, it really depends on the ski if you should get them tuned or not.

Ask someone who knows the line and the mfg's stuff well tell you what to do when they're new.
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Peters
If it's a race ski, have them FULLY tuned.

Actually, it really depends on the ski if you should get them tuned or not.

Ask someone who knows the line and the mfg's stuff well tell you what to do when they're new.
that is a ridiculous blanket statement!

If it is a "RACE STOCK" race ski and has no base or side edge bevel, then of course they must be stone ground flat & tuned. If it is a"RACE STOCK"ski many come tuned already

If it is just a shelf race ski, wax it & go ski it.

Every pair of skis, race or otherwise, that I have purchased in the last 30+ years (except a very few Race Stock pair) have skied perfectly out of the box.

the manufacturers use the same machines that many shops do with a very good accurate ceramic disc finish.

Most of my skis have never skied better than when they were brand new.

If you want your new skis screwed up let some bozo at a ski shop tune them for you.

There is absolutely no reason to tune them before skiing on them. if you ski on them & they don't seem right, you can then consider a minor touchup and could alos give some feedback to the tech so he knows what may be the problem.
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Peters
If it's a race ski, have them FULLY tuned.

Actually, it really depends on the ski if you should get them tuned or not.

Ask someone who knows the line and the mfg's stuff well tell you what to do when they're new.
Many race stock ski come with a superb tune from the factory. Fischer & K2 for example. I try to preserve that tune as long as possible.

Always wax, however. I'll wax a new ski after every day of skiing until the base looks oily.

Cheers,

Michael
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
The skis are atomic metron M:9's. I plan on bringing them to princeton ski's flagship store in NYC so the people there should be good too. So just get it waxed a few times by them? since I don't know how to do it myself. and can you get bindings mounted without knowing exact boot size but an approximation?
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio
Definitely don't tune them until you've tried them. Do have them waxed or do a wax job yourself. The factory waxing is minimal. Ideally, you should wax them one or two times with a soft wax scraping the wax off while its still warm. This cleans the bases plus softer wax does a better job penetrating into the base giving your subsequent waxings something to bind to. After doing the warm scrapes hot wax them with the wax you intend to use.

If you're lazy (like I often am) you can skip the warm scrape steps and just clean the bases & hot wax them. Use a citrus based cleaner (not a citrus scented cleaner) to clean the bases.
I've ordered some citrus based cleaner from tognar.com. I've heard some people say that citrus cleaners dry out the base..do you find this to be true?
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skicrazed
I've ordered some citrus based cleaner from tognar.com. I've heard some people say that citrus cleaners dry out the base..do you find this to be true?
Citrus based cleaners are good because they don't react with the P-Tex like some other cleaning materials can. They will remove some oil and wax from the bases which will make them appear dry. Be sure to wax your bases well after cleaning them with any substance.

P-Tex is made by squeezing microscopic plastic balls together. The gaps left between the balls create pores the wax can get into to bind to the base. Wax does not effectively bind directly to the plastic itself. If you don't get wax into the bases the wax won't hold well. Because of this some people prefer to only clean their bases via the warm scrape method. I'm too lazy so I use citrus cleaner to clean my bases.
post #10 of 29
I may be in the minority here, but I've rarely skied a ski out of the wrapper that worked very well. I find that the factory finishing process (even on the high end skis of the most reputable brands) leaves a lot to be desired. If you look at the finish on a new pair of skis, you can always find ripples in the base and edge, hot spots in the edge where the feed slowed down a little bit, and other oddities that leave the base and edge finish less than perfect. Add to that the fact that after the skis were made things cooled down, parts expanded/contracted at different rates while they sat in a warehouse or were floating on a boat, and you end up with a finish that while it's far better than skis of yore, is still less than perfect. I spend a lot of time when I get a pair of new skis making sure that the edge finish is as precise and smooth as possible and then wax them a few times before I get on snow.

The problem for most folks is that if you don't know how to do this, you will do more harm than good if you go after your new skis with your favorite file. There aren't many shops that can improve on the factory finish with their grinders and fewer still that have technicians that have the skill and can take the time to get it right.

So, I'd say the best course for most folks is to take them out on the hill and see how they go. If they're not easy to ski and you find them unstable skiing snow and terrain that you normally handle, then you should get them checked out by a shop that specializes in tuning.

If you'd like to venture into the do it yourself world of ski tuning, the Tognar web site and catalogue have lots of good information about how to use the tools of the ski tuning trade.
post #11 of 29

Don't use base cleaners

Never use a base cleaner on your ski/board. It's action is the exact opposite of the proper care you must take. Hot-wax-scrape exclusively and frequently in the beginning. Actually you should do this several times before the skis hit the snow; race skis 10+ times before going on snow (World Cup skiers do it 30+ times). The more you do this the faster your base will get through the season, dry it out by not waxing or using cleaners and you are effectively starting over with a slow base (and stripping the base of what it needs - wax).
post #12 of 29
Quote:
an you get bindings mounted without knowing exact boot size but an approximation?
You'll need the boot sole length, 300 mm or whatever. Your shoe size or boot size is just about meaningless. It is molded into the side of the sole. Certain brands of bindings also must have the toe piece adjusted for the height of the toe. You can do this yourself. Put the ski into the binding with a piece of thin, stiff paper between the sole and the antifriction device (a crisp dollar bill works). Pull the boot strongly upward in the toepiece, and see if the paper slides. It should slide with very little resistance. Adjust the adjusting screw up or down until it is right. If your bindings don't have the adjusting screw right on top of the toepiece, forget about it.


Ken
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy
You'll need the boot sole length, 300 mm or whatever. Your shoe size or boot size is just about meaningless. It is molded into the side of the sole. Certain brands of bindings also must have the toe piece adjusted for the height of the toe. You can do this yourself. Put the ski into the binding with a piece of thin, stiff paper between the sole and the antifriction device (a crisp dollar bill works). Pull the boot strongly upward in the toepiece, and see if the paper slides. It should slide with very little resistance. Adjust the adjusting screw up or down until it is right. If your bindings don't have the adjusting screw right on top of the toepiece, forget about it.


Ken
Most reputable shops want the actual boots (both of them) that you will be skiing on. there can be significant differences in htoe height & sole length.

You do not need your metrons tuned before skiing on them.

I would never use any base cleaner on my skis!

Neox bindings have self adjusting toe height so you don't need to do any of the above. Also using a dollar bill or piece of paper is ridiculous. Bindings that have toe height adjustment need a .5mm Gap. About the thickness of a well worn credit card. Or you can get a a plastic card for this purpose from the binding manufacturer or buy one from your shop.
post #14 of 29
I'm with Choucas on this one!
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantman
I'm with Choucas on this one!
Sorry, never had this problem.
post #16 of 29
I usually check the edges, and hit them with a stone if needed. Almost every new ski I have gotten has a slight hanging burr (from the final base grind at the factory ). Running a stone along the side edge cleans this up and makes the edge perfect. Then give them a wax.

Craig
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219
I usually check the edges, and hit them with a stone if needed. Almost every new ski I have gotten has a slight hanging burr (from the final base grind at the factory ). Running a stone along the side edge cleans this up and makes the edge perfect. Then give them a wax.

Craig
To remove a hanging burr from side edge tuning you must run the stone flat against the base edge with the ski standing up in a vise with the side edge facing up and the base facing away form you. You run the stone flat against the base edge with the stone partially sticking up above the side edge with medium pressure.

if you run the stone along the side edge you are removing the bur from bae edge tuning. this burr has little or no effect on skiability since it breaks off when you put the ski on edge.

A hanging burr sticks down straight down from the side edge and wreaks havoc with skiability, hence the stone run along the base edge, not the side edge.
post #18 of 29
I used to find new skis railed fresh out of the wrapper, probably due to shrinkage of the ski as it cured. The last few pairs have skied beautifully with the factory tune. I good tech can check them for flatness and tell you if they need work. The caveat is it has to be a tech who you trust. LewBob
post #19 of 29
As Atomicman and others have noted, most skis come from the factory pretty much ready to ski. If I'm inclined at the moment, I might have the shop put an appropriate range "all temp" wax on for the conditions I expect. Or, somewhat less likey, I might do it myself...

However, I'll bet you that 9 out of 10 shops/techs handed a Metron and asked to tune it (with no more specific instructions) will put a 1/1 bevel on it -- and it'll ski a ton worse than it would with the factory tune. (If you are wondering about this, just do a search for atomic and bevel )
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
As Atomicman and others have noted, most skis come from the factory pretty much ready to ski. If I'm inclined at the moment, I might have the shop put an appropriate range "all temp" wax on for the conditions I expect. Or, somewhat less likey, I might do it myself...

However, I'll bet you that 9 out of 10 shops/techs handed a Metron and asked to tune it (with no more specific instructions) will put a 1/1 bevel on it -- and it'll ski a ton worse than it would with the factory tune. (If you are wondering about this, just do a search for atomic and bevel )
Truer words were never spoken, except for lewbob in the previous post!
post #21 of 29
Oops, Accidently repeated myself. How do I delete this? LewBob
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by RACEWAXdotCOM
Never use a base cleaner on your ski/board. It's action is the exact opposite of the proper care you must take. Hot-wax-scrape exclusively and frequently in the beginning. Actually you should do this several times before the skis hit the snow; race skis 10+ times before going on snow (World Cup skiers do it 30+ times). The more you do this the faster your base will get through the season, dry it out by not waxing or using cleaners and you are effectively starting over with a slow base (and stripping the base of what it needs - wax).
OMG!: As I'm just about to clean my skis with my newly acquired base cleaner, I find your response!! I am utterly torn as to what to do..what kind of wax do you use to clean your base??
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skicrazed
OMG!: As I'm just about to clean my skis with my newly acquired base cleaner, I find your response!! I am utterly torn as to what to do..what kind of wax do you use to clean your base??
SOFT & CHEAP, not necessarily in that order.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
To remove a hanging burr from side edge tuning you must run the stone flat against the base edge with the ski standing up in a vise with the side edge facing up and the base facing away form you. You run the stone flat against the base edge with the stone partially sticking up above the side edge with medium pressure.

if you run the stone along the side edge you are removing the bur from bae edge tuning. this burr has little or no effect on skiability since it breaks off when you put the ski on edge.

A hanging burr sticks down straight down from the side edge and wreaks havoc with skiability, hence the stone run along the base edge, not the side edge.
I use a 1 degree toko pocket base file guide to make sure I don't dull the edge.
post #25 of 29
for the first 5 times that you get them tuned... get them waxed twice.
so for 5 sharpenings, you will have 10 coats of wax in them
post #26 of 29
I tend to come down on the side of Atomicman and RACEWAXdotCOM regarding cleaners.
A lot of citrus cleaners are really solvent based with a "citrusy scent". Bad stuff to be avoided unless your skis are heavily impregnated with oil, tree sap, and other old snow contaminants that can come with late season conditions.

I would use the hot scape method using a warm wax like SWIX CH 10 or 8 or it's competitor's equivalents. SWIX also makes a special base prep wax though I'm not sure that it is noticeably better than any soft wax. This month's Skiing magazine has a basic "how to" wax article. There are a lot of threads here on the same subject and info elsewhere on the web. It is really quite easy and a lot less hassle and money than taking it to a shop.
post #27 of 29
I take the plastic off. Then I mount them. Then a fresh coat of wax.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
I take the plastic off. Then I mount them. Then a fresh coat of wax.
You forgot the most important part Phil. Then you ski them. I have always skied them out of the box and they seem to rail fine. New skis yes.
post #29 of 29
If you haven't seen my post on the other thread, WAX!!!!
My new skis have base burn after skiing twice
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