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How do you help your beginner friends to ride?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
When teaching first timers to ride do you ever hold on them? If so, how do you do it?
post #2 of 18
sometimes-
hand-to hand, theirs pushing against mine.
this isn't a standard practice in my bag o' tricks, but it's in there.

why do you ask? was your instructor holding you?

show me, on the doll, where he was holding you...
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Jay,

I teach. I'm working on an article on the subject.

BTW - you need to take the dirty mind quiz

Thanks for your response.
post #4 of 18
Hey Jay (or vlad or whoever),
Welcome to Epic. I hope that this forum goes better for you than Bomber did. That may have been a new record for getting the boot.

TheRusty - I "dance" with the little ones down the mountain. For adults I may hold their hands as a last resort.

Toeside traverse (and falling leaf)- I ride uphill from the student holding their hands.
Heelside traverse - I ride downhill from the student holding their hands.

I do not teach this to our instructors because I feel that it takes a size advantage and a lot of skill to do.

Again, for an adult, this is a last resort. For kin. learners it is very effective.
post #5 of 18

Hold me fry pan, hold me....

The hand holding game is a bit sketchy in my book. I have used this tactic only when I feel the rider will truly benefit. My only thing when training new hire instructors is to not encourage it. Have have a few hand holding incidents "go wild".My big hesitation as well...getting the rider to ride on thier own not necessarily have to depend on me as a crutch.

Jay, as emile used to say on saturday morning cartoons...

say NO, GO, then TELL.:
post #6 of 18
[quote=philsthrills]Hey Jay (or vlad or whoever),
Welcome to Epic. I hope that this forum goes better for you than Bomber did. That may have been a new record for getting the boot.

quote]

Phil- I didn't 'get the boot'-
I emailed fin and politely asked that he unregister me.
wasn't my kind of place, is all.
I believe he booted someone else, however, for using multiple IDs at one IP.
I know I rec'd two personal emails from the site from two different 'members', and each came up under my own MSN acc't. as originating from the same IP.
hey- maybe it's two guys using one computer, who knows- roommmates sometimes do that.
anyway, I mentioned the childish name-calling that was happening, and explained to fin thatI really wasn't about taking that kind of trash. fin runs a tight ship
next time, phil, ask, don't assume.
you'r eonly making an ass outta me and uma thurman

Oh, and, phil- here's an email Fin sent me 15 minutes ago:

"From : Fin <fin@bo*******.com>Sent : Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:54 PMTo : "'jay v. westerveld'" <schneeschuleschweiz@hotmail.com>Subject : RE: multiple IDs @ one IP

No problem and know that you did not have multiple accounts. You followed the rules to a T.

Cheers!Fin "

'kay, phil?
post #7 of 18

Sea Monkeys, everywhere!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah D.
The hand holding game is a bit sketchy in my book. I have used this tactic only when I feel the rider will truly benefit. My only thing when training new hire instructors is to not encourage it. Have have a few hand holding incidents "go wild".My big hesitation as well...getting the rider to ride on thier own not necessarily have to depend on me as a crutch.

Jay, as emile used to say on saturday morning cartoons...

say NO, GO, then TELL.:
I am peeing myself, Jonah!
I emailed you at the second email address from which i rec'd one from you, it got kicked back with a delay notice.
I'll resend it to the bike shop.
Incidentally, I absolutely concur (what else is new?) re: hand-holding. Seems the trainers at our one-time dual stomping grounds are big into it, though. you would laugh yer ass off.
post #8 of 18
I don't think anybody uses it unless it's last resort. The dance works best for people that are afraid to "let go" and commit to a garland or turn. It also works best if you do it AFTER they can do a straight run and stand up on the board.

I am not a big guy, so I can't hold up most people. When I was teaching I would "do" it, but not support their weight at all. I was actually just "pretending" to support them. It kind of tricked them into getting over the fear and trust the board.
post #9 of 18
if anything, my preference , in such a situation, is to get a boot on the nose of the student's board to slow IT down, as opposed to holding the student. holding the student often leads to having the board running out ahead of the student whom tends to lay back....booting the shovel of the student's board effects the opposite dynamic.
I know that we're discussing 'holding' in terms of it's efficacy for teaching steering, but..........
post #10 of 18

How touching

First off, I ask my student before any sort of contact happens. Second, I do alot of hand holding for all clients at the beginner level and often in the terrain park for first time efforts on rails. The spotting really increases saftey and reduces fear. Learning and fun are also increased. I also encourage coaches at our resort to do more spotting and coaching rather than standing and yelling.

If the student shows that they don't need the hand hold any more, I stop. I stay close enough to spot until they've got enough skill to practice on their own.
post #11 of 18
ANYTHING that keeps the instructors from standing around jabbering at the students is likely better than...standing around jabbering at the students.
JonahD is a warm example of animation and keeping things moving.
the resort where he and I met is now (unfortunately, unlike when he and I were there) features 1 hour 45 minute classes wherein the instructors never once strap the board on, and therefore never demonstrate at all, throughout the entire lesson. they stand at the top of the class and yell at the students while the students go barrelling out of control away from them.
They feature Burton "Chill" classes which, after 4 straight teaching hours over the course of two nights, NO student gets onto a chairlift, but, rather, is relegated to the flat bunny hill.
I'll avoid mentioning the resort's name.
hand-holding would be better than just standing there jabbering, nonetheless, although though i rarely resort to it.
I'm typically too busy demonstrating a technique for every two runs that the class takes.
My lessons typically comprise 40 demo runs, by me, in one hour. Each student, therefore, has taken 20 runs in that time, minimum.
not one student has found it neccessary to show the psychologist where, on the doll, theyw ere touched.
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ok, now it's time to make 2 confessions.
1) the primary purpose of this post was to bump the rider bash thread off the top with something meaningful to riding
2) the article I'm working on proposes an alternative to hand holding: hip holding. There also other "hands on" teaching ideas presented in the article.

Many of the concerns already discussed here are addressed in the article. Right now, it's still in the draft stage. Thanks for helping me out.
post #13 of 18
a fatty, pint of vodka, and a kick in the ass to help them start down any black diamond....

sorry had to do it

i have raised 2 boarders so it is not a hate thing
post #14 of 18

Touching that's ok

theRusty,

I've also held onto jackets from behind, kind of like holding someone up by the collar. I've held lower on the jacket though and did not really hold them up, it was more to let them know I was there. I've had students try to push my hands instead of hold onto them. I've grabbed the zipper of their jacket above the stomach and used that as a contact point with my other hand on a shoulder, again asking first.

I think Earl Saline might have some info on this topic. Although it's from the adaptive side of things there's some cool hoop stuff that he could explain to you that's easily transferrable to non-adaptive situations. Earl's out of Winter Park and is on the EAC so you could email him throught that portion of the AASI website.

I also have the students hold themselves. No joke intended. This would be for more advanced lessons. But to have fun working with alignment and posture issues, I often have the client hold a hip or reach for the sky or whatever other arrangement will cure their weird posture or alignment.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
When teaching first timers to ride do you ever hold on them? If so, how do you do it?
i definately try to minimize holding them up. if the beginner is having serious balance issues then holding them (or assisting them with my hands) would be used. as they start riding more, and the student is having issues i'll hold and as they get more confidence i back off slowly until they are riding under their own balance.

i just a picture yesterday of those adaptive snowboarding hoops, thats a pretty clever tool!
post #16 of 18
i began snowboard instucting in '88. I began teaching 'boarding on a very icy, crowded hill...big groups, many a day, many years.....out of thousands of pupils i've taught, i've rarely ever held any of them, their coats, etc., and i've had really nice success in getting them linking turns in an hour.
maybe you holders might want to consider other options?
just a thought.......
post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
Vlad,

What is your beginner progression? How long were your beginner lessons? What is your idea of a big group? How rare is rare (1 in 100)? What was your criteria for the rare occaison?
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
Vlad,

What is your beginner progression? How long were your beginner lessons? What is your idea of a big group? How rare is rare (1 in 100)? What was your criteria for the rare occaison?
Great questions-
my beginner progression consists of sepdning much of the first ten minutes doing flatland centering drills, including hopping. Hopping can't be done in an other-than-centered attitude, so it neurotrains the pupils to staY CENTERED. It also teaches them horizontal movement, again, somewhat unconsciously. from there, i move to straight glide, then straight glide while turning the head slightly toward a lateral landmark, without ever verbailzing 'turning' or 'steering,.
My pupils move, move and move, and rarely stand still. I demo once for every two runs that the pupils make, so as to keep a fresh, exagerrated demo in their mind.
then I introduce turn finishing, once they've shown the ability to subtly change directions both ways. onc ethey've mastere this, we hit steeper terrain and work on good edging, and linked turns.
typically, all of this occurs, when students are kept moving, in about an hour. much like ski lessons, the flatland balance drills, in my experience, make or break the class success.
I consider more than 8 pupils to be a big group.
i hand-hold more like one in fifty or so...? figure in 5 or 6 group lessons of eight pupils, i might have to hold someone's hand for a few seconds, a couple minutes, tops. that's just me. I honestly never thought about the frequency of my application of this rare practice.
I can recommend, from first hand experience, that you get JonahD's input on your question. It could run opposite mine, and I'd give it full props, based upon results
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