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Complaining. . .Housebound in Snowmass - Page 3  

post #61 of 64
Originally Posted by segbrown
I think the best thing to come out of this thread is the knowledge that, even for all of his expertise, skierzzzzzz doesn't plan to have children.
And I for one believe that's a good thing.
post #62 of 64
Originally Posted by mollmeister
Well. . . She was a suffragette and an early feminist who, in a famous 1892 speech (entitled "Solitude of Self") before the House Committee on the Judiciary spoke of ideas like the independence of women, determined by the “individuality of each human soul.”

As you will see below, she touched on the idea expressed above in a piece of the speech below, but without the *missing* pieces designated by ellipses, the meaning is more clear. Essentially, the idea is that yes, some special abilities (and even training) would be useful to being a mother, BUT more importantly, a woman should have a broader education and a fuller life that feeds the individual and society as a whole, "
by the complete development of all [her] faculties as an individual," not just through a focus on her motherhood.

She said, in part:

"In discussing the rights of woman, we are to consider, first, what belongs to her as an individual, in a world of her own, the arbiter of her own destiny, an imaginary Robinson Crusoe with her woman Friday on a solitary island. Her rights under such circumstances are to use all her faculties for her own safety and happiness."

Fourthly, it is only the incidental relations of life, such as mother, wife, sister, daughter, that may involve some special duties and training. In the usual discussion in regard to woman's sphere, such men as Herbert Spencer, Frederic Harrison, and Grant Allen uniformly subordinate her rights and duties as an individual, as a citizen, as a woman, to the necessities of these incidental relations, some of which a large class of women may never assume. In discussing the sphere of man we do not decide his rights as an individual, as a citizen, as a man by his duties as a father, a husband, a brother, or a son, relations some of which he may never still. Moreover he would be better fitted for these very relations and whatever special work he might choose to do to earn his bread by the complete development of all his faculties as an individual."

"Just so with woman. The education that will fit her to discharge the duties in the largest sphere of human usefulness will best fit her for whatever special work she may be compelled to do."

". . .The strongest reason for giving women all the opportunities for higher education, for the full development of her faculties, forces of mind and body; for giving her the most enlarged freedom of thought and action; a complete emancipation from all forms of bondage, of custom, dependence, superstition; from all the crippling influences of fear, is the solitude and personal responsibility of her own individual life."

I have this feeling that Ms. Cady Stanton, though she bore seven children--as was the custom in her time and place, (and she was, by all accounts a terrific, indulgent mother, despite her speaking engagements and other political activities)--would not have had a problem with my using "
all [my] faculties for [my] own safety and happiness."

Hmmmm. . . something to ponder and embrace.

And yes, if I like pie, I say I like pie, and I just cut it in smaller pieces. Self-denial is not the only way to share.

Wow! Insinuations of feminity, selfishness, selflessness....

Let's just hope your hubby is getting some and using something so you don't have to feel so inferior in your childfull life. Ms. Stanton would be proud, now go and exercise on your elliptical machine, or exercise your rights, or whatever it is you couldn't do while you stuck at home and your kid was sick and your husband was working.

Off with their heads, chop chop...:

And go feed your child his pie, he needs it more than you, or who knows, maybe you never got to taste pie as a child.
post #63 of 64
Thread Starter 

I had hoped that by removing myself from this discussion that perhaps it would stop, but that didn’t work. Some time after I had temporarily checked out of this moronic argument and you had been responding to posts by other people, you threw this little gem out there:
Originally Posted by skierzzzzzz
One more question: Your husband is off working, don't you think he'd also want to be off skiing? Ohhhh, but I don't hear him complaining on some message board that his wife won't support him so he can go skiing.
And here it goes again.

Originally Posted by skierzzzzzz
Let's just hope your hubby is getting some and using something so you don't have to feel so inferior in your childfull life. Ms. Stanton would be proud, now go and exercise on your elliptical machine, or exercise your rights, or whatever it is you couldn't do while you stuck at home and your kid was sick and your husband was working.
Personal attack, personal attack, personal attack. Did my last post look like a personal attack to you? Did I mention anything about you, your life, your proclivities? No, just thought it interesting that you chose a renowned feminist for one of your quotes.

Now, as for what this has all been about since the beginning:

Originally Posted by skierzzzzzz
Treat your child with love and respect, provide for them their basic needs, give them a good education and opportunity in life and remember that before you make the choice to enter into a lifetime commitment by producing/bearing a child think before you do.
Sure. Great. Good. You have a handle on the basic tenets. And if these are the basic tenets, then I meet and exceed them every day (including the part about thinking about being a parent before I became one)—except you didn't seem to think so, simply because I had a down day. Now, try applying these tenets to your actual life, with its ups and downs, and to different kids, each of whom is as individual as a snowflake. It's not an easy job. It's rewarding in a million ways. But it's also very, very hard sometimes, no matter how innate a gift you may have. Furthermore, the application of these tenets varies infinitely from family to family, from child to child. One way of rearing a child is not *right* for every family.

Oh, and sure, you're correct. You quite possibly would be a good parent if you wanted to be one. Many people would probably be good parents. Who knows?

At the end of the day, though, what most people including myself have taken umbrage to is not the issue of whether or not you (because you seem to think I have been posting about you) would be a good parent, but the judgments you have seen fit to make on others, with little or no knowledge of the actual facts. Although you eventually stated that this was not intended to be personal, you continued to take stabs at my marriage (about which you know nothing) and how my child would feel about things (about which you also know nothing).

Internet or not, anonymous or not, this kind of attack is rude, inappropriate, and juvenile. You are welcome to your general opinions. You are not welcome to attempt to attach them in some negative way to my life and my family.

To put it another way, this thread has had one good outcome. I have thought a lot about my friends and family who are mothers and role models (oh yes, and skiers). I have thought about some of the things that they (and I) have endured and enjoyed in the name of motherhood and marriage. So, until you have:

Suffered a miscarriage. Waited and hoped for years to carry a child that never arrived. Spent years cutting through the red tape of adoption. Carried *miracle twins* for 40 weeks in your belly (and gained more than 50lbs). Experienced complications in childbirth that would have killed you and the baby in the 1800s. Spent six weeks recovering from blood loss so severe that going up the stairs made you dizzy, while learning to care for an infant and breastfeeding 'round the clock. Discovered the joy of breastfeeding for a year. Changed thousands upon thousands of diapers. Been shat upon, peed upon, and thrown up upon. Discovered that your sweet, lovely, even-tempered child doesn't like sleeping and won't sleep through the night or nap regularly until he is more than a year old. Witnessed the first smile, first laugh, first wave, first word of your child. Spent about 95% of your waking hours directly caring for three children. Given up a great career because it was important to you that your children got that same 95% of your time that your mother gave to you. Spent at least an hour of every day (if not eight or ten of them) worrying about something that might befall your child to make his life hard or painful or difficult. Spent a night holding a child and caring for him while he suffered through a terrible fever. Found out your child was incredibly gifted. Found out your child was mentally ill. Lost an almost-adult child in a car accident. Gave away a daughter in marriage. Looked at your own children through the lens of your relationship with your parents and hoped that everyone was still well and happy 20 or 30 years from now, and that family would continue to be friends, not just family.

Do not assume you know everything or perhaps even anything about actually being a woman, a mother, or a wife. And certainly do not assume to know what it means to be me in my marriage with my child. You know nothing about me. You know nothing about my complex relationships with the people I care about, about my emotions, my frustrations, my aptitudes, or the nearly infinite love I have to give my child.

Seeing as you have no truly relevant information, then, cease making judgments about my life and my family based on a post I made on a bad day when I was lonely and bored and frustrated. Just let this thing go, and maybe do a little (a lot?) of soul-searching to figure out why people keep responding to this thread in anger and why you feel the need to keep attacking me on a personal level.

I have been feeling a bit like this whole board has been going off the rails, actually. I am here because I am rabidly enthusiastic about skiing. I was sad the day that I started this thread because I love skiing and couldn’t go. I was really posting about snow and skiing, not parenting. Doesn’t anyone else around here love skiing? Let’s all move away from the computer, set down the mouse, and go out and friggin’ ski already!

post #64 of 64
I'm pretty disappointed in the direction this thread took a number of times. As a result, even though there were a number of attempts to redirect it (thank you!), I'm going to lock it until I figure out what other action we'll take.
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