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Edge Ice Questions

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Hey all,

I'm new here. Been a silent reader for a little bit. Have a couple of questions...

Little bit of background: Skiied as a J5 and J4 when I was a kid. Parents moved away so I quit the team, and pretty much just skiied recreationally a few times a year (I would say approx 20-25ish days a year) up until this one, when I joined my college's ski race team.

Had the 1st race of the season last weekend went pretty badly (I guess... felt good, went horribly wrong). First day I skiied VERY conservatively... new skis, first race... yadda yadda... telling myself I just wanted to have a second run. I spent the rest of the day finding out how hard I could push my skis on the ice (Fischer RC4 Worldcup RS- the cheater GS skis) . Second day I woke up and felt confident so I went all out. First run I slipped out on the ice, lost a ski and DNF'ed. The beginning of the course felt good (I think I fell in the last 3/4ths of the course). I was skiing well and was on top of the turns, had a good line, wasn't coming in late... But lower down on the course, I felt like I couldn't get an edge to dig into the ice past the thick granular top coat.

So my question are what are you supposed to do. I was taking videos of my team during the second run (plus videos of the top 5), and it looked like everyone was slipping. Are you just supposed dig as hard as you can, and pray to not be as unfortunate as I am (that was pretty much my strategy at the time...)? Or is there some sort of icy granular technique that is foregin to me?

Help!

Mike
post #2 of 11
Without looking at the video ourselves (if you have it digitally, I'm sure people would be happy to look at it if you posted it), it's hard to tell what was going on... if the snow was really granular death-cookie refrozen junk, holding an edge is near-to impossible without getting below the loose stuff - otherwise it just gives out under any sort of edge pressure...

If your course was slipped and the loose granule stuff had been scraped off, then people were either slipping because they don't have the skill/gear to carve on hard ice, or they were intentionally slipping at a certain gate because there was a particularly tight gate or two. again, without seeing the video, we have no way of knowing what, exactly, was going on! Good luck picking racing up again, there's nothing more rewarding!

glytch
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glytch
if the snow was really granular death-cookie refrozen junk, holding an edge is near-to impossible without getting below the loose stuff
thats kind of a comforting feeling in a not so comforting way. yes it was. thaw the day before to refreeze the next day. it was kind of good becuase the course stayed consistent the whole day. no one got shafted due to gigant0r ruts from earlier racers.

mike.

p.s. i'll try and transfer that video from miniDV to computer.
post #4 of 11
Video would be great. Check out the following threads too.

Who is Carving: Perception vs. Reality
Carving On Ice: Technique or Gear or What?
I need to learn to carve at the top of my turns, any suggestions?
Please, Help Me Stop Tipping!
"NEW School" v "OLD School"???

You may also want to check out my more recent thread on carving (video) which has me carving on some pretty solid snow in it. It also has links to a few other threads you or may not find helpful. It may help you out with a visual though.

Carving Thread

If you can get video that would be great. It always makes figuring out the problem much easier. I do have some questions though. How recently were your skis tuned, and what is your DIN setting compared to your weight?

Later

GREG
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
I do have some questions though. How recently were your skis tuned, and what is your DIN setting compared to your weight?
Hmm... I found out that a more aggressive stance helped a lot. I think it was becuase it wasn't allowing me to backseat it at all. Discovered that at practice last night. The only problem is that absorbing ruts hurts like a mofo, and scares the freak outta me. Will try to unfold that mystery next practice (wednesday).

Skis were tuned Friday morning. Race was Saturday/Sunday. 1 base, 3 side. Also, the DIN is 10.5. My weight is 190. Had my ski not have released (11? : these number are starting to scare me...), I feel like I should have been able to get up and hike back to the gate I missed and finished the race. Had it set at 9 before (was leaning towards the conservative side due to new bindings/skis), but had a fairly unprevoked prerelease at practice the week before. That kinda sucked so I cranked it up later that night.

The release came after I slipped out. I was coming in late for a turn after a thru-gate so I went even higher on edge. Then wham. I'm sliding down the slope on my side.... Hmm... come to think of it, I might have had a boot-out. : It happened so fast.

Mike
post #6 of 11
It's been asked why PSIA does not teach race techniques to recreational skiers. Well folks, there are 2 answers in the above post: "hurt's like a mofo" and bindings set higher than recommended. You need to be in great athletic condition to pull off some of the moves and your risk of injury is higher.
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
It's been asked why PSIA does not teach race techniques to recreational skiers. Well folks, there are 2 answers in the above post: "hurt's like a mofo" and bindings set higher than recommended. You need to be in great athletic condition to pull off some of the moves and your risk of injury is higher.
Well... i mean it can't hurt that badly. I guess once you get used to it, right?

I like to think I'm not out of shape. I race bicycles during the spring/summer/fall, recreational skiier during the winter.
post #8 of 11
A random question - where are you racing out of?

I ask because this past weekend I was racing at Pico and we had the same thaw/refreeze...

glytch
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Elk Mtn.

This weekend is Timberline in WV.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
It's been asked why PSIA does not teach race techniques to recreational skiers. Well folks, there are 2 answers in the above post: "hurt's like a mofo" and bindings set higher than recommended. You need to be in great athletic condition to pull off some of the moves and your risk of injury is higher.
Ahh. I've been thinking about this, doing it more in practice, and I feel like I'm more in control. My edges are doing what I tell/want them to do.

I feel like its what I needed to hear. I guess I just needed someone to confirm my little bit of self technique discovery.

Thanks.
post #11 of 11

Elk

Elk .... Go ask Wolf.

That old bird will fix what ever disease you have contracted. Some of the best coaches in the area too ... I'd have them comment.

It's not like you don't have talent up there. The "Conrad Dynasty", isn't gone is it?
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