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Why are ski instructors paid so little? - Page 5

post #121 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
IMO, the answer to the problem is that individuals who desire to make more money should strive to make themselves difficult to replace by those who pay money.

Steve
A very good friend of mine approached SAM a couple years back and pointed out some issues with our ski school. SAM told the SSD to fire him. He made Ed-Staff last steason while working for another ski area. My ski area hasn't had an Ed-Staff member in something like 6 years, and hasn't had an examiner on staff in 10 years. SAM doesn't give a she-at.

If I was able to get booked 100% of my time with request privates, and demanded a raise or else I'd take my customers to another ski area, SAM would let me walk rather than pay me more. Sad, but true. Maybe not true at some of the major resorts, but definitely true around here.
post #122 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
I've found that attempting to change human behavior, thereby creating demand is much more difficult than creating a supply that the market already desires and for which is willing to pay.

Steve
what is "the market" then, Steve? how can "the market" do ANYthing?

better asked,

how can "the Market" DESIRE something when it's devoid of human emotion, and relates only to transactional monetary value?
post #123 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
think about it. you can insist that you are rare, and therefore "in demand," but you cannot force others to see that, nor can you force them to call on their willingness to throw $$$ at you.
This world is full of people and products and have "convinced" those who pay that they are rare and special. They live in the big houses overlooking the ocean and ski resorts.

Steve
post #124 of 134
if you want to get pay raised,

go independent, become part of ESA, focus on serious skiers who will come back again and again for improvement because it's improvement they're seeking.

identify what type of skier/boarder will return, again and again, for repeat lessons.

stop thinking of "business," start thinking of people.

"business" tends to take care of itself if you have the people considerations addressed.
post #125 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
This world is full of people and products and have "convinced" those who pay that they are rare and special. They live in the big houses overlooking the ocean and ski resorts.

Steve
hey, we're getting somewhere! see, this very sham is eroding the TRUE value of ski instruction, wouldn't you agree?

(maybe not, maybe that's your point?)
post #126 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
hey, we're getting somewhere! see, this very sham is eroding the TRUE value of ski instruction, wouldn't you agree?
Honestly, I don't even know what you're saying...

Like it or not, people do not get paid based on the "value" they provide either to individuals or to society.

Good discussion. Gotta go skiing...

Steve
post #127 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
Honestly, I don't even know what you're saying...

Like it or not, people do not get paid based on the "value" they provide either to individuals or to society.

Good discussion. Gotta go skiing...

Steve

I agree, Steve.


But I think things can be improved. See ya.
post #128 of 134

Breckview ...

What do you do for a living. I get the sense that it is indeed in the industry, but in what capacity?

Can you be a bit more specific beyond something like "ski pro" ... ??
post #129 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
go independent, become part of ESA, focus on serious skiers who will come back again and again for improvement because it's improvement they're seeking.
and get thrown off the hill by SAM(see the "cease and desist" post) and only wok one 3 day event all season, which I would need to fly to and get a rental car and hotel? Fun for sure, but make more money? not.
post #130 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
and get thrown off the hill by SAM(see the "cease and desist" post) and only wok one 3 day event all season, which I would need to fly to and get a rental car and hotel? Fun for sure, but make more money? not.
I'm not saying it's easy, John. I'm saying that from the student's perspective, from where I fit in the $$$ equation, I'd prefer to have my choice. and I think that many, many serious "students" of skiing would think likewise.

there aren't many of us profiting from monopoly of ski instruction. I'm surely not one of them. I prefer ESA and Yoda. Both are independent.

the attraction of Harb and PMTS is some indication of dissatisfaction with the PSIA/SSD monopoly, I think. but of course, I could be wrong here.

I wish people like you and the ESA Coaches were able to freelance your work in the way that doctors, lawyers, others can do theirs... either form a "group practice" or "firm", or work independently. It's the American way, isn't it? Independence?
post #131 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
I wish people like you and the ESA Coaches were able to freelance your work in the way that doctors, lawyers, others can do theirs... either form a "group practice" or "firm", or work independently. It's the American way, isn't it? Independence?
I work for a company with about 300,000 employees and about 10,000 in the DC/Balt area. I have wondered what would happened if I started soliciting within the company for independent lessons, and went to the local SAMs ahead of time and said "look, I have all these poeple who want to take lessons with me, but will not take lessons at all if they don't get them from me. I can bring them to your mountan and you'll gain the lift ticket and food income, but if not, we'll take our money elsewhere." and see what they say.

My guess is that they would say "no dice" then immediately call the other two local ski areas (owned by the same company) and give them a heads-up and tell them to slam the door in my face. They'd rather lose the money than lose face (not that they would actually be losing face, but they are weak, power hungry wanna-be's, and would consider it giving-in to someone else if they let it happen.
post #132 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
I'm not saying it's easy, John. I'm saying that from the student's perspective, from where I fit in the $$$ equation, I'd prefer to have my choice. and I think that many, many serious "students" of skiing would think likewise.
That's because you are one of the rare, educated and informed people who actually know better . SAM considers it his job to keep people like you to a minimum so that he can continue his monopoly. Not much different than politics, eh? Of course business IS politics, so I guess they actually are the same.
post #133 of 134
I think you're right. Because they look near-term. Like the greedy fools they are. And then, when they're old and feeble and full of reminiscing regrets, they will see they were wrong. But what good does that dying regret do for you, for me?
post #134 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
My guess is that they would say "no dice" then immediately call the other two local ski areas (owned by the same company) and give them a heads-up and tell them to slam the door in my face. They'd rather lose the money than lose face (not that they would actually be losing face, but they are weak, power hungry wanna-be's, and would consider it giving-in to someone else if they let it happen.
John,

Washington Ski Club is welcomed at Whitetail with open arms. They bring their own instructors. If you go through group sales, doors can be magically opened.
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