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Tight Radius Race Skis - Nordica Dobermann Pro SC?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I am looking for new skis one of these days. Racer, advanced to maybe approaching expert, eastern skier mostly so ice and edge hold is a big issue. Height of 6.0 and about 170 pounds.

I have a pair of oversized Rossignols that are fun but getting to be too soft for racing. They have a 115 tip, 64 waist, 104 tail in a 171 length. Radius is somewhere between 12 to 13 max (not stated on the ski though- used various calculators.

So far I am demoing some models as I can.

Skis I have really liked:
Fischer Race RC in 170
Volkl Racetiger SL in 165
Volkl 6 Stars last years model
Volkl P60 - 2 years ago - not sure right now the length or exact letters in the model
Elan Fusion (prior years S series- not as tight of radius as I'd like though they held on the course in Ice)

Skis I am thinking about but have not been on:
Nordica Doberman Pro SC in 170
Fischer Worldcup SL in 166 (or prior years RC4 SC slalom in 166- I think it was)
Elan Fusion SL
What is the opinions of some of these I have not skied?
post #2 of 24
Fischer Race RC is more like the RX-8. Not really a race ski, cap construction. Of course the 6* isn't really a race ski either.

What kind of racing? Most of those skis you mentioned are not race legal for the FIS. Since you didn't mention your age or what kind of racing you're doing, it may not matter. If you're looking for a Slalom Carver with more energy than the Rossi's try Volkl, Atomic or the Fischer RC4 World Cup SC (it's a sandwich construction race ski that is non-compliant and completely different than the Race SC).
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
As for the types of racing, mostly Nastar racing and some ski council race weekends, no Masters or USSA where I have to worry about the FIS length and radius rules.

Age is 45, if it matters.

I have looked at the Fischer but not skied them- know they are good skis, I have a pair of Fischer Worldcup RC4 in the non-FIS legal (cheater GS skis) 175 length and a 16 radius. This is one reason I want to stay in the 12 to 13 meter radius. I find them a little stiffer than what I want in some race courses too for my weight to be the only ski in use.

The thing I did like about the Race RC (even though they are not a full blown race ski) is the softer feel to them compared to the RC4.

Thanks for the feedback,

Anyone out there own the Dobermann Pro's and have comments on the SC?
post #4 of 24
Quote:
I have looked at the Fischer but not skied them- know they are good skis, I have a pair of Fischer Worldcup RC4 in the non-FIS legal (cheater GS skis) 175 length and a 16 radius. This is one reason I want to stay in the 12 to 13 meter radius. I find them a little stiffer than what I want in some race courses too for my weight to be the only ski in use.

The thing I did like about the Race RC (even though they are not a full blown race ski) is the softer feel to them compared to the RC4.
You might want to check out the new Salomon 3v Lab in a 165. They really rip and aren't too stiff, yet hold a very good edge in the course. Radius is not written on the ski, but it's around 12.5 to 12.8.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
I know very little about the Salomon line of skis. Their US web site does not have a picture of the Race SL Labs in 165 (I assume these are the ones you are talking about) nor do they have and specifications listed- only the length with everything else 0's (maybe that is why the picture did not show very well if the tip waist and tails are all 0 )

Do you have any dimensions or side cut info? Otherwise unless I can ski them they probably would not make the list.
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohansson
What kind of racing? Most of those skis you mentioned are not race legal for the FIS.
Where does this myth come from?

You need to visit the FIS rulebook.

If its stamped 165 or longer, its legal.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
I know very little about the Salomon line of skis. Their US web site does not have a picture of the Race SL Labs in 165 (I assume these are the ones you are talking about) nor do they have and specifications listed- only the length with everything else 0's (maybe that is why the picture did not show very well if the tip waist and tails are all 0 )

Do you have any dimensions or side cut info? Otherwise unless I can ski them they probably would not make the list.
Not sure if the sidecut info is made available to the public: since this is a FIS ski, the only thing that needs to be stamped on the ski is the length. With that said, it has a lot of sidecut and can turn on a dime. I don't have this year's model, and the sidecut specs are not written on it, not sure about this year either (I have skiied it, but didn't notice if dimension were given).

Try to get in touch with a Salomon rep: they are great skis and should take a serious drop in price next year, since their bindings will be Neox instead of spherical.
post #8 of 24

Salos

Quote:
Not sure if the sidecut info is made available to the public: since this is a FIS ski, the only thing that needs to be stamped on the ski is the length. With that said, it has a lot of sidecut and can turn on a dime. I don't have this year's model, and the sidecut specs are not written on it, not sure about this year either (I have skiied it, but didn't notice if dimension were given).
In regards to the Salos there is a good description here (if you are talking about the ZZs). The 165s Ivica skis are 119-65-101 @ 12.7 and the 155s Janica skis are 112-65-97 @ 12.1

http://starthaus.com/index.php?department=products&type=skis&brand=salo mon

One comment made here about FIS regs and Masters - I race Masters SL on 156s. No one has ever checked how long my skis are or how high my boot is off the snow. It is unreasonable for weekend warriors to have to buy new skis just for World Cup rule changes. I also wear my Scott SL helmet for GS and sometimes run GS on 6 stars (don't tell anyone)

Fossil
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fossil
One comment made here about FIS regs and Masters - I race Masters SL on 156s. No one has ever checked how long my skis are or how high my boot is off the snow. It is unreasonable for weekend warriors to have to buy new skis just for World Cup rule changes. I also wear my Scott SL helmet for GS and sometimes run GS on 6 stars (don't tell anyone)

Fossil
http://www.ussa.org/PublishingFolder...mpguidech3.pdf

And why shouldn't you ski on the six stars? At USSA Masters races, FIS equipment regulations do not apply, 'cepting stand height and helmets. Who's ever had their stand height checked anyway?
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
The skis these would be replacing that I am on now have an illegal lifter plate on them, it has not been an issue so far, if anyone did call me on it (assuming I'd start doing the Masters races that is one day) then I'd have to address it at that future date. None of the racing I am doing have any equipment rules for the skis (some of the council races require helmets- that is all).
post #11 of 24
Try a Stockli race ski.... if you ski on ice a lot you will LIKE them... (a lot!)

Ant has been pretty happy with her new SC's and I loved my poor old SLR's....
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have heard nothing but good things about the construction etc. of the Stockli's but I also heard they are expensive (since they are hand made etc.)

Don't know of many shops around here that even carry them. So can't say except what I have read.
post #13 of 24
Stockli is all well and good, but the one guy I did know to actually compete successfully on them several years ago has since switched to a more widespread brand, mainly because there isn't much to gain from going where few others go in this case.

Good skis though for sure.
post #14 of 24
Stockli .... SC's
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RShea
I have heard nothing but good things about the construction etc. of the Stockli's but I also heard they are expensive (since they are hand made etc.)

Don't know of many shops around here that even carry them. So can't say except what I have read.

http://www.stoeckliski.ch/index_en.html

more info
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
Where does this myth come from?

You need to visit the FIS rulebook.

If its stamped 165 or longer, its legal.
My bad. I thought turn radius and sidecut were also included in the limitations.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohansson
My bad. I thought turn radius and sidecut were also included in the limitations.
Not for Slalom but in GS you have a minimum radius of 21m and minimum ski length of 185cm.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fossil
In regards to the Salos there is a good description here (if you are talking about the ZZs). The 165s Ivica skis are 119-65-101 @ 12.7 and the 155s Janica skis are 112-65-97 @ 12.1

http://starthaus.com/index.php?department=products&type=skis&brand=salo mon

One comment made here about FIS regs and Masters - I race Masters SL on 156s. No one has ever checked how long my skis are or how high my boot is off the snow. It is unreasonable for weekend warriors to have to buy new skis just for World Cup rule changes. I also wear my Scott SL helmet for GS and sometimes run GS on 6 stars (don't tell anyone)

Fossil
Funny that the stand height is being mentioned. Im 5mm over the FIS 55mm because its sooooo much better . BTW, just raced a local masters GS on my Head i.SL RD 165cm and came 6th of 12. Pritty good for a beginner... (my first race in 25y). That is also a ski that Rshea could consider.
post #19 of 24
RShea,

Please tell me more about the Volkl Racetiger.
I want a pair.

Thanks!
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
Not for Slalom but in GS you have a minimum radius of 21m and minimum ski length of 185cm.
For you, in FIS sanctioned Masters races.

Outside of the hardcore dudes like Gary Dranow over here in the states, most of the races are USSA sanctioned, and the length/radius requirements do not apply
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
For you, in FIS sanctioned Masters races.

Outside of the hardcore dudes like Gary Dranow over here in the states, most of the races are USSA sanctioned, and the length/radius requirements do not apply
Yes shure, I was just pointing out the FIS rules for GS for those that did not know.

Im just in the prosess of buying GS for my club masters races and I cannot deside between 21m FIS skis and 17m cross or overcut GS skis.
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonissimo
RShea,

Please tell me more about the Volkl Racetiger.
I want a pair.

Thanks!
I skied the 165 cm skis for about 3 runs a few weeks ago. I wrote up a reply to a thread here on them. It was a day with hard pack turning to ice on the race course. I did not ski the full blown top of the line race stock model, the standard off the shelf retail model. They were plenty stiff for me, I do not think I'd want the higher end stiffer race stock.

Read this thread for some more:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...ght=Race+tiger
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
Yes shure, I was just pointing out the FIS rules for GS for those that did not know.

Im just in the prosess of buying GS for my club masters races and I cannot deside between 21m FIS skis and 17m cross or overcut GS skis.
This thread is about slalom skis though, I read through the Masters link just to see what it had to say and I'd have to go to FIS before any length or specs would apply to Slalom if I read it correctly. A 12 or 13 meter radius ski would not be a good GS selection for Masters even if it had no rules on the issue, it would not be ideal at all.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RShea
This thread is about slalom skis though, I read through the Masters link just to see what it had to say and I'd have to go to FIS before any length or specs would apply to Slalom if I read it correctly. A 12 or 13 meter radius ski would not be a good GS selection for Masters even if it had no rules on the issue, it would not be ideal at all.
Yeah, I know this is a SL thread but we sort of got tangled up in FIS rules. In local and national master competitions FIS rules did not apply two years ago but last year that all changed. Nobody will check on your equipment on local and national level though.

FIS rules confusion is added by such as blizzard.com where they state that their SL ski turn radius is complient to FIS rules! Here: http://www.blizzard-ski.com/goto/en/...a-sl-magnesium
One more time: there is no FIS turn radius limitation for SL skis. Only a minimum length limit of 165cm and a maximum stand height limit of 55mm off the snow for men.
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