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How do I find out the factory angles?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Pretty much what the title says.... I have a new pair of Monster 72s which feel in need of sharpening (certainly not sharp enough to shave with). How do I find out what edge angles they have by default from the factory?
post #2 of 20
i recently tuned a pair. the base was not perfectly flat, so bevel appeared somwhere between 1 and 2. my advice is to set 2(88) deg. with your tools and stick to that. works fine for the ski.
post #3 of 20
Check the Tognar catalogue, www.tognar.com. They say that Head skis are 1 degree on the base and 1 degree on the side.
post #4 of 20

choucas

Thanks for the tognar web address! I've learned a lot from their website
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by choucas
Check the Tognar catalogue, www.tognar.com. They say that Head skis are 1 degree on the base and 1 degree on the side.
Thanks for that, but I can't quite see where on the site it says that?

Our ski shop (Stoeckli) generally will put a 1 degree side bevel on unless otherwise instructed (and I reckon that if you know enough to be playing with the bevel you should prob be capable of doing it yourself anyway ) but I just wanted to check that that concurs with what's on there already.
post #6 of 20
Inside the catalog they have a couple of pages of tips and a listing of the factory defaults (some argue their listing and it may depend on the ski model with some manufacturers). If in doubt I'd call the company or try and email them from a link on the ski manufacturer web site if the bevel angles are not listed there.

See this thread for more info and the Tognar listing I posted: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=33073
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng_ch
How do I find out what edge angles they have by default from the factory?
You don't say if your going to have a shop tune or a DIY job.

You can buy a set of angle guages but if you plan a DIY tune & you have a range of different angle file guides you can use a marker pen to black up an inch of edge & then using your various guides run a stone over the marked area.

For the side angle, if the pen is only removed on the side of the edge nearest the base angle then that guide is less in angle than the factory angle. If the pen is only removed at the top sheet side of the edge then the guide used is of a greated angle than the factory angle. A guide that removes an equal amount off the full width of pen is the one that equal the factory angle.

Once you've found the angle it's worth confirming it at regular intervals along the length of the ski to check that the factory tune is consistent. It's surprising how it can vary slightly along the length.

The same principle applies to the base angle.
post #8 of 20
if you get a machine tune ask for 2deg side bevel. that makes sense anyway.
post #9 of 20
I usually try to do a google search but I can't find anything. That confuses me too, when I needed Atomic's factory spec (1 base, 3 side) I found in off the first hit. Head should publish something like that. Goodluck!
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderjon
You don't say if your going to have a shop tune or a DIY job
Err, do it myself never having touched the tools, or get the ex Swiss world cup team techie to do it.... bit of a no brainer, that one

Thanks for the info, though, Spyderjon
post #11 of 20
it is meaningless who runs the machine if they do not care to adjust it. that's what happens most of the time.
post #12 of 20
I asked Head directly after placing an order with them, and they say that their skis are beveled 1 degree for both base and edge. The skis I was asking about where the i.XRC 1200 and I was expecting a more aggressive edge bevel (2 degrees, which is actually what most machine tunes do). All their skis have the same bevel. I am curious though, is 1 degree with a plate holding as nicely as 2 without?
post #13 of 20
besides that your super duper WC tech should be able to find out angles himself.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdan
besides that your super duper WC tech should be able to find out angles himself.
I'm sure he can. Doesn't mean I shouldn't know - I LIKE to know things. But I'm also aware of my lack of knowledge and experience. Until I started reading here and Snowheads, I didn't even know you could put different angles on! Therefore on balance of probability, an experienced techie is likely to do a better job than I could at this stage, and a WC tech *ought* to be better than a teenager just doing a season in a shop. But it doesn't hurt to try and acquire enough knowledge to actually know what I'm getting for my money. And it's the sort of thing that may well be worth learning to do myself, in which case I would need to know the angles, no?
post #15 of 20
the best thing: ask him to set 88 deg. side bevel. that works great. very likely the factopry angle anyway. then optionally get some nice tool and a file and a diamond stone an learn to maintain the edge yourself. there is not the least bit of rocket science in it.
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
OK, so starting my learning curve: presumably you increase the bevel to increase edge grip on ice. So if 88 is better than 89, why doesn't the manufacturer put 88 on?
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng_ch
OK, so starting my learning curve: presumably you increase the bevel to increase edge grip on ice. So if 88 is better than 89, why doesn't the manufacturer put 88 on?
the sharper, the less forgiving the ski and the faster the edge wears out. in other words: a 90-deg edge is theoretically never super sharp, but stays rerlatively sharp for somewhat longer. but imho the improved ice grip of a sharper, thinner edge is well worth it. especially if you have a file guide and a diamond stone to maintain it.

but hey, my suggestion (base1, side2) is only a 89 deg edge and far from extreme! the best compromise for allround skiing.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng_ch
OK, so starting my learning curve: presumably you increase the bevel to increase edge grip on ice. So if 88 is better than 89, why doesn't the manufacturer put 88 on?
I would suspect the manufacturer tunes for the best overall widest range of this is what the skiers like no matter what the skier's ability is, no matter where they ski type of tune. The average good general tune. If you are above average or ski on ice more than western powder, if you want the skis more responsive, you may benefit with the higher edge angle. Read up on the threads here discussing the manufacture's angles- then discuss this with the world cup tech that will be working on your skis to establish a plan of changing or increasing the angles or staying with the factory angles.

I too am learning as this season goes on and this forum has helped greatly.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=32599
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=34883
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=35528
And there is one more thread that I can recommend that has the drawing of the angles along with good discussion on the issues.
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=32477

If you read through these you should gain some knowledge and opinions of others. Not everyone would agree with changing the factory (especially if the skis are working and is skiing well for you) angles.

There are some other sites outside Epic that have discussions too on this in their tuning tips or guides.
post #19 of 20
Not about the Heads, but couldn't find K2 bevel on this site, so I went to them and got the following:

"
All our skis are pre-tuned with a one degree base and sidewall bevel."
post #20 of 20
You can check the angles with a protractor on a combination square


The angle depends partly on how you ski. If you like to carve your turns, you may want more angle and do not de-tune (dull) the tips and tails. If you steer and skid your skis, you may do OK with less angle and need de-tuned tips and tail edges. If in doubt, don't de-tune and carry a small stone with you. If you feel that the skis are grabby, dull the edge on the tips and tails, a short ways at first, and more until they feel right.

I think 1/2° base angle is good for dry snow and 1° is good for wet snow. I like 2° side angle. The problem with 3° is that if you hit a rock, it might take out a lot of edge material.


Ken
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