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Video For Analysis: Recreational Carving (not Heluva, not a racer)

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
The skiing here is carving on the same slope that my videos are filmed on. The snow conditions are eastern packed powder (commonly known as ice). The skier... well, you can guess who the skier is, but it is not me. This is slightly more low level than my skiing, and should be very good MA practice for those out there who are working toward exams or just want/need the practice. The goal of this person's skiing is to be a high performance recreational skier with a tendancy toward racing (without actually racing seriously). He can handle any terrain and any conditions, but this is a fair representation of his groomer skiing. The clips have been taken on two different pairs of skis; one slalom and one giant slalom.

I will keep my comments to myself for now, as I know this skier's skiing quite well (unfair advantage). I am curious what all the MA experts think. One thing to note is that the skier has not been "taught" to ski... he just kind of picks things up from somewhere...

Anyways, enough talk... here is the clip:
Skiing for MA

Later

GREG
post #2 of 19
Good turns for an untrained skier. I'd prefer to see less pop to his extensions and I'd much prefer he did them with both legs rather than employing just the outside leg. Maybe he could keep both skis on the snow during initiations then. The second section is smoother than the first. Is that when he was on the slalom skis? He seems to be more confident the inside ski will turn in that part. He makes good angles. Again, I'd like to see him stand a bit taller and do less uping and downing in the knees, more rolling of the ankles.
post #3 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
I will keep my comments to myself for now
I am curious what all the MA experts think.
I am not a MA expert, so i will keep my comments to myself FROM now.
post #4 of 19
I agree with Kneale's comments and will go a little further, although MA for racing is completely out of my league.

Firstly, I have no idea who the skier is. Mostly he does not have the patience (or confidence) to develop a turn by building gradual pressure. He pops up (as Kneale already indicated) and jams the new edges, often starting a slight skid before the new turn has a chance to develop (not that we have not seen that in racing ). Also the arms are static and poles nearly useless, even in the short SL turn in the second part.

It would be interesting to see short and medium normal turns to get a better sense of the recreational aspects of his skiing.
post #5 of 19
What did you guys think of the stance? It looked a wee bit wide to me, but might be functional for the skier.
post #6 of 19
the skier's shoulders dip always to the left. doesn't matter which direction the turn is taking, the shoulders dip left. this can't possibly result in good bone stacking or mid-turn power. can it?
post #7 of 19
I like the stance(in the middle of the turn), wider is better for carving IMO.

He banks pretty bad during his left turns(look at the hands and shoulders), slight banking to the right but not nearly as bad as it is to the left.

good bit of unneeded up and down movements too, could use more movement into the turns, also the inside ski is very light to off the ground to intitate the turns.

His inside ski doesnt have enough pressure on it(goes along with lifting in a way), a side affect of this, is his stance narrows quite a bit during the transtion from turn to turn.

Hands are dead, outside hands falls behind in a couple turns, pole plants might help get rid of some of the extentesion, and stay more fore than aft.
Keeping both hands forward will do the same.

Anyone give myself feedback on these observations?

Still fine skiing IMO, probably catches alot of untrained eyes on the hill going whoa look at that guy.
post #8 of 19
Questions for MA purposes..

How's the Balance? Fore/Aft, Lateral, Good dynamics?

Edge use? Is this skier using their edges, If so, How? Hard, progressive, high edge angles, low edge angles. What is this skier using to generate these edge angles?

Rotary. Is this skier using rotary? If so, What part of the body is generating the rotary? Where does the rotary begin? Is the more noticable movement a cause or symptom.

Pressure. Is the skier creating pressure during the turns or managing pressure. How well is this being done? Where in the turn is the pressure being generated and how?

How is this skiers blend of the above skills?
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
the skier's shoulders dip always to the left. doesn't matter which direction the turn is taking, the shoulders dip left. this can't possibly result in good bone stacking or mid-turn power. can it?
Does this skier have a Ski Patrol background?

Maybe a friend or spouse that this skier uses as a mentor or instructor?

A double fall line might affect this as well as an alignment problem. Trying to release an over canted edge might cause a move like this.

DC
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
There is a slight double fall line (but it doesn't effect my video, so I doubt it would effect his), and he does not have any Patrol back ground... In fact he might be the last person you want dragging you down the hill. Interesting that someone noticed the comfort level on the slalom skis versus the GS skis... that was his second time on those GS skis, and usually skis only a slalom ski.

Here are some of my observations of his skiing over the years:

He is LAZY. Most of the time he does just enough to get down the hill, and not a lot more. he and I were out for the day without anyone else so I was pushing him harder than he is accustomed to. Because of his laziness, his skiing (to me) is very static. He is sometimes in the back seat, and usually not in the front seat, which leaves him somewhere in the middle. Part of this on the slalom clip, is because of the skis. They have a quite far forward mount and really reward a lazy fore/aft balance position. when you get too far forward they get squirrely. I have skied on them a number of times, and even my skiing gets slightly rearward when I am on them.

In his skiing there is a serious lack of hand movements on all terrain, not just when carving. I think his stance also tends to be too wide to be effective. He has picked it up from watching a certain someone ski, but doesn't quite use the angles yet that make that wide of a stance worth while. Because of it's width he tends to initiate his turns with that ski more than he should, and it ends up leading his outside ski way more than it should, especially given the relatively low amount of angulation that he uses. Ironically he also uses the same up/down motion that I use in my turns (who knows where he may have gotten that from). He understands the concepts of other transition methods, but rarely uses them. He doesn't really have much of a focus right now, but if someone were to point out some areas of interest and a starting point I suspect that I could point him in the right direction.

Later

GREG
post #11 of 19
Good observations, Greg. You picked up on the things I was going to comment on. Definitely not engaging the front of the ski at the top of the turn, and it results in incomplete runaway turns that take him down the falline. Little cross hill travel. I'd hate to see him try to negotiate a modern set slalom course with those pseudo turns. Lazy hanging hands contribute to the problem.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
What did you guys think of the stance? It looked a wee bit wide to me, but might be functional for the skier.
Looks fine to me for the type of turn he is making.------Wigs
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Good observations, Greg. You picked up on the things I was going to comment on. Definitely not engaging the front of the ski at the top of the turn, and it results in incomplete runaway turns that take him down the falline. Little cross hill travel. I'd hate to see him try to negotiate a modern set slalom course with those pseudo turns. Lazy hanging hands contribute to the problem.
OUCH!
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
I like the stance(in the middle of the turn), wider is better for carving IMO.

He banks pretty bad during his left turns(look at the hands and shoulders), slight banking to the right but not nearly as bad as it is to the left.

good bit of unneeded up and down movements too, could use more movement into the turns, also the inside ski is very light to off the ground to intitate the turns.

His inside ski doesnt have enough pressure on it(goes along with lifting in a way), a side affect of this, is his stance narrows quite a bit during the transtion from turn to turn.

Hands are dead, outside hands falls behind in a couple turns, pole plants might help get rid of some of the extentesion, and stay more fore than aft.
Keeping both hands forward will do the same.

Anyone give myself feedback on these observations?

Still fine skiing IMO, probably catches alot of untrained eyes on the hill going whoa look at that guy.
IMHO, I don't see any banking that is bad. In fact, I see very little banking in this video.

The stance for the most part stays constant and does not open and close.

There is a pop in the transition and could be worked. A good observation that this would cause a lighter inside foot. By moving into the turn would help and keep the transition more lateral than vertical. -------Wigs
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
So how do we fix it?
post #16 of 19
Iff hacks are allowed to comment, I will suggest that he crank his turns a little tighter perhaps, and definitely farther around. He could use more of the hill. Try to get him to finish the turns up hill. That would force him to do more with the next turn (or run off the course ) and make him less lazy. If this causes too much loss of speed, he could find a steeper slope. Oh, and get those hips to the front. Just doing that should improve his skiing and still be fun. I wouldn't worry so much about banking and other tedious details, unless he is working on style points or trying to pass a level test or something.
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
I wouldn't worry so much about banking and other tedious details, unless he is working on style points or trying to pass a level test or something.
Well, he does have my criticism to deal with...
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
So how do we fix it?
Ask him to keep his weight on his down hill ski and roll it down the hill to start his new turn. Then extend into the turn instead of popping up to start the turn which would lighten the new inside ski.------Wigs
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
I think I am going to put together a short list of things that need to happen to make the turns better and email it to him.
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