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Rise Line

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Here's a question for all you coaches.
Does anyone know where I can find a good article on the rise line?
Does it still apply with modern slalom technique?
post #2 of 11
TRy the USSA tactics CD.
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks. I'll try that.
post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by canski
Here's a question for all you coaches.
Does anyone know where I can find a good article on the rise line?
Does it still apply with modern slalom technique?
JASP is correct about the USSA Tactics DVD, it has some excellent portions dealing with line. You can get it here

Your second question is intriguing. Rise line considerations are much more critical in GS, SuperG and of course Downhill, are they a consideration in Slalom as a real tactical element. The basic answer is sure, but I feel this can be explored further as the Slalom turn is so condensed compared to the other disciplines. Is rise line and turn shape necessarily connected at the hip (pun intended). Are there other elements to the Slalom turn shape and tactical decisions that are eminently more important that rise line considerations? I'm going to roll this around in my mind a bit and see what shakes out. In the meantime, Heluva, SSH, (Rick's at a MSRT Clinic, that's why he's been so quite), JASP, what do you think? For instance does that "ski the slow line fast" have any relevance in a modern slalom course, especially with the trend towards increasing the offset (as seen at Wegen).
post #5 of 11
I will bite. In GS, SG, and DH the line that the skier takes plays a huge role, and often can make a huge difference between two technically identicle skiers who choose a different path/line around the gates.

So, you ask does it apply to modern slalom? Yes. How much? That is a good question. It seems that CM manipulation plays a larger role in modern slalom, but how much of that influences line? I suspect that it makes a huge differece. Watch Rocca ski, then watch the next closest few skiers... his upper body is quiet and balanced, letting him choose whatever line he feels he can ski. I think the two go hand in hand...

[I will add more to this later, but I need to think on it more]

Later

GREG
post #6 of 11
The whole idea of getting late and low comes to mind. As fast as the gates come at you, I feel line is even more critical.
post #7 of 11
The first place I saw the rise line mentioned was in Witherall's 1984 update of How the Racers Ski.
I haven't seen the USSCA's CD but up to now they haven't made much out of it that I've seen.
It's a valid concept that still applys in technical events (we don't do a lot of speed in Central so I admit, I haven't paid much attention to it there) While I don't use the term much to the kids I'm constantly reinforcing the concept. It's particularlly important in the "stivot". The lower you are the longer you have to wait to "turn in" to the gate.
One coach used to set a series of colored markers on the rise line above the gate. The first was red, the second yellow and the last green. The idea was to see how deep you could go and still make it. I remember hearing him saying, "you can go yellow on this one", or, "stay green here", while inspecting with his kids.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Good ideas guys. The reason I was asking is that I was in a slalom race last week and I tried to ski a lower line to keep up with some of the really fast guys before me. But it seemed to me on the lower line that I'd almost start turning too soon and I had to back off to clear the gate which made me dump speed. I've been watching videos of World Cup racers and they really leave their turns to the last second. But for mere mortals like me and probably most other racers it seems that starting a turn higher on the rise line might be easier and faster because it lets you carve a cleaner turn. What do you think?
post #9 of 11
Brush and stubbies set ups are on that CD. Take a look. Inso far as tactical lines they also cover that in detail. "More agressive only when you have the skills to maintain that line", is the line that I remember most from that CD.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks again,

The CD is on order.
post #11 of 11
Quote:
"More agressive only when you have the skills to maintain that line"
Yes, turning at the gate is not an option for a lot of people, at least not a fast option and not in every condition. Practicing this on a moderate slope with stubbies or brushes is very good when you want to tighten the line somewhat and explore what you can and cannot do (yet) in the course.

Then you have the opposite, people who are great skiers but who always take the high, round line, wich can kill your time on the flat and easy part of the course. Brushes, or straightfoward courses (not a lot of horizontal offset) are a good way for them to allow them to tighten the line and let the skis run a bit more.
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