EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Look at this bloke skiing bumps
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Look at this bloke skiing bumps

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
http://skitelevision.com/bumps.html
This chap is a CSIA level 4, skiing bumps. It's not a video, it's just a little film clip, it's slow-connection friendly and doesn't need a viewer.

I'm glad we've found better ways to ski bumps. My knees wouldn't like this style at all, and the long pole plant really holds him back IMHO. You'd get a long look at his ski undersides.

(from http://skitelevision.com/)
post #2 of 24

Thumbs up for this guys mogul skiing!!!

Better ways of skiing the bumps??? I like that mental approach of the skier in the video clip: this is not the only way to ski the bumps! If we accept there are lots of different ways of skiing we can appreciate the effort put in by all of us and make it more enjoyable.

I think this approach is great. Skiing controlled and fluently in the bumps is a very rare skill and this guy is doing it very well. He is leaning nicely forwards and he is flexing and extending his leggs in a very natural manner. Is this hard on the knees? No, because he is bringing up a very important issue and that is "low impact". Bending your leggs is not going to ruin them but exposing them to very hard ipacts and loads will. Disclaimer, mogul skiing is hard on the knees. Disclaimer, skiing is hard on the knees. Disclaimer, running is hard on the knees. Disclaimer, walking is hard on the knees.

He is also following his ski tips with his ski tails making for nicely controlled drifted turns. No windshield wiper effect and no skidding down the face of the bumps. The only thing I dont really underline is that he starts his turn with a straight back. IMO he has his back slightly bent but he is standing very upright. Then he brakes at the waist but very nice skiing indeed.
post #3 of 24
That is still far higher impact than I want to ski bumps.
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
That is still far higher impact than I want to ski bumps.
Didnt you read my disclaimer....
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
That is still far higher impact than I want to ski bumps.
post #6 of 24
He looks pretty good to me. Smooth, flowing and in control. Something to aspire to.
post #7 of 24
For me, this is the way to ski the bumps. It's actually very low impact. The more pressure you can apply to the snow on the back sides of the bumps, the less shock you'll get on the front's of the bumps. If you actively retract over the top of the bump, and actively extend and pressure on the back of the bump and thow in a bit of a nice skidded turn, the speed is incredibly constant and can be as slow as you want it, as is the pressure. It's no harder on the knees than doing half squats (which for some, is still too much, so those people should probably avoid the bumps).
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
For me, this is the way to ski the bumps. It's actually very low impact. The more pressure you can apply to the snow on the back sides of the bumps, the less shock you'll get on the front's of the bumps. If you actively retract over the top of the bump, and actively extend and pressure on the back of the bump and thow in a bit of a nice skidded turn, the speed is incredibly constant and can be as slow as you want it, as is the pressure. It's no harder on the knees than doing half squats (which for some, is still too much, so those people should probably avoid the bumps).
Exactly how I see it! Good post.
post #9 of 24
John - I have instructors that ski bumps very differently to that..... they have knees & I am pretty sure they CAN do that - but just do not very often.... they do rounder turns than those..... sort of on the edges but high up the bumps... rather than in the holes....
post #10 of 24
Moguls can be skied in many different ways but absorbing the moguls in an unweighted mode with your leggs and extending into the valleys were you make your turn on soft fluffy snow is a very nice looking and fluent way of doing it. I would also say low impact. The man in the video clip does it very nicely.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
He lets the fronts of his skis pop up as he hits the backside of the bump, and sinks low to absorb that. That is not "low impact", at all.
post #12 of 24
The trough bottoms control speed, which seems to be one of his aims. I'm suspecting he could easily skip them but that's a little more work & a little faster (unless you start slipping more).
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
He lets the fronts of his skis pop up as he hits the backside of the bump, and sinks low to absorb that. That is not "low impact", at all.
Depends on how you define low impact. Speed is controlled and low. Since speed is slow and your leggs flex over a large range of distance it feels much more pleasant than the jaw braking teath shattering knee pounding hard back slamming and beating your body gets in the zipperline.
post #14 of 24
Speed control in bumps is so easy everyone misses it. Slow down the top of the turn to make them round. This allows a slower longer rounder line even in the zipperline corridor. The result is also much less up and down flexion and absorbtion. That much flexion and absorbtion is just way to much work and impact to me.

What I am seeing is traditonal bump skiing slowed down with more flexion and absorbtion used. It works fine right up to the point where the bumps get large enough to bottom out the knees into the chest and then you're in for a schellacin.
post #15 of 24
He did one a few years back where he stood up off of a stool and started skiing while playing a violin. I forget what the theme was that time but it was pretty funny to watch and illustrated his point well. He uses a pretty open approach to teaching and to good skiing which is often missing in the CSIA.
post #16 of 24
I'm quite sure this skier is Rob Butler, who is somewhat of an icon in the CSIA, and has been for a few years now. He is as smooth as a hot ball bearing rolling down a pad of butter!

Pierre: I have read your posts of the bulldozer turns in the bumps and your commitment to very low impact bump skiing but I simply cannot get a real picture of what you are doing. I would love to see a video of your skiing; perhaps it could help me- I love bumps but I find them difficult-sometimes I'm decent in them, but if they're icy, as they frequently are here in the east, I can be a real hack.

cdnguy
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnguy
I'm quite sure this skier is Rob Butler, who is somewhat of an icon in the CSIA, and has been for a few years now. He is as smooth as a hot ball bearing rolling down a pad of butter!

Pierre: I have read your posts of the bulldozer turns in the bumps and your commitment to very low impact bump skiing but I simply cannot get a real picture of what you are doing. I would love to see a video of your skiing; perhaps it could help me- I love bumps but I find them difficult-sometimes I'm decent in them, but if they're icy, as they frequently are here in the east, I can be a real hack.

cdnguy
My mogul clinics start tomorrow. I am going to do some video taping for sure. I will post at some point.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnguy
I'm quite sure this skier is Rob Butler,
It is.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Speed control in bumps is so easy everyone misses it. Slow down the top of the turn to make them round. This allows a slower longer rounder line even in the zipperline corridor. The result is also much less up and down flexion and absorbtion. That much flexion and absorbtion is just way to much work and impact to me.

What I am seeing is traditonal bump skiing slowed down with more flexion and absorbtion used. It works fine right up to the point where the bumps get large enough to bottom out the knees into the chest and then you're in for a schellacin.
Pierre makes a good point here. This style works only if the bumps are small enough to flex over and you are able keep the CM in place. As soon as they get bigger and you need to move your CM up over the bump you need a different approach.

The problem with slowing down in the zipperline corridor is that if it is skied to the point that there are just a track of ZZZZZZZZZZ you cannot make round skidded braking turns ala SSSSSSS to brush off speed. Its just zack zack zack and you are hitting 50km/h. If you find a zipperline that is pritty unskied you are a lucky. Bumps are rare here in Europe due to pist groomers and the ones that exist are usually crowded.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnguy
I'm quite sure this skier is Rob Butler, who is somewhat of an icon in the CSIA, and has been for a few years now. He is as smooth as a hot ball bearing rolling down a pad of butter!

Pierre: I have read your posts of the bulldozer turns in the bumps and your commitment to very low impact bump skiing but I simply cannot get a real picture of what you are doing. I would love to see a video of your skiing; perhaps it could help me- I love bumps but I find them difficult-sometimes I'm decent in them, but if they're icy, as they frequently are here in the east, I can be a real hack.

cdnguy
While we are waiting for Pierres video, PM me and I can send you a link of myself in the bumps if you want. That would maybe bring up some questions that I could answere.

Looking forwards to Pierres video as well .
post #21 of 24
What he shows but does not mention is the critical importance of pulling his feet back as he's starting down the bump. He stays out of the backseat and gets the front-half edges of his skis working in the snow. If those edges are working the snow, the skier has control. If the skier has his weight on his heels and the tips aren't on the snow, he has nearly no control.

Anyway, retract the legs when approaching the bump and extend the legs down the face of the bump...if the legs are extended, they can then be retracted when the next bump is reached. If they're not extended, there's nothing to retract.


Ken
post #22 of 24
post #23 of 24
I think in this particular example he is skiing some bumps that are extremely bumpy to demontrate a point. I can't think of any other good way to navigate these bumps without a lot of leg extension and compression. The nice thing about his technique is that he is extending down the back/side of the bump, which is keeping his skiis on the snow where he can get a little edge and actually start controlling his speed immediately instead of waiting until he touches down to land again. He can make nice round turns through the bumps that way...even though they are quite large. In more normal sized bumps, the leg piston action would not look nearly as intense.. I think he purposefully used some extreme situation with this little article to demonstrate a point..that point being....bend the knees to absorb the bump and EXTEND the legs down the backside to keep skiis on the snow always turning.

When I talk to people about bumps, one of the things I like to say is, don't focus on the bumps, focus on the troughs. Look for troughs, ski towards them and extend your legs down into them. All the bumps will do their job of pushing your knees up towards your chest just fine. But you have to be the one to extend your legs down into the troughs. so ski the troughs, extend down into each one and make sure you're relaxed enough so that you absorb the bumps you have to ski over.

Of course there are other ways to ski bumps, skiing around the sides of them, etc.. but there are plenty of situations where you simply have to go over a bump and extending down the back as you start a turn is key to that.
post #24 of 24
That little video may show something unique to you instructors that are regularly focusing in on other's body positions and techniques, but to me he looks generally similar to some other bump skiers I've seen that are more interested in control than speed and reducing impact. Certainly not your pro mogul technique but hey a lot of us recreational bump skiers don't ski like that. Accomplished ski instructors often ski bumps rather so. Or maybe I'm just not seeing something. The video is short since internet bandwidth is a limitation on videos. The snow or few moguls have only the most vague visibility. I'm sure he could probably smoke a serious bump field way better than me or most of you.

Natural skier made mogul fields have a huge variety of shapes, dimensions, and lines that one must instantly be able to contain. Many shapes in a field are continually evolving growing and waning especially where snow is softer and drier. Some moguls evolve quickly while others are still there a month later. Simply said, control speed to a slower rate and mogul impacts can be reduced to modest levels. Personally I use a lot of subtle upper body movement instead of just leg action below because moving ones upper body, head, arms, and wrist/hands for pole plants can be used as tools to control dynamic edge bite into a slope and manage motion through the maze of shapes. Then again I might move down through several bumps with my upper body absolutely relaxed and quite with just my legs swiveling below. A lot of what my body is doing, I probably have little clue as to what is really going on at a level some of you experts could pick apart. One example: I sometimes like to delay my upper body to move forward over the nose of steep bumps at times which can really help keep speed down at the expense of some dynamic smoothness. Like your moving nicely through a bump field and then one comes to a short steep drop with large bumps before leveling back out again. If one just keeps the same rhythm up, the result may be considerably more speed at the end of the drop.

...dave
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Look at this bloke skiing bumps