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Snowboard self-arrest

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I took a spill the other day and found myself in an unusual position -- sliding down the hill head first on my back.

I had been riding under control on a steep groomer, then I caught some unexpected air over a lip and lost it. Don't know exactly how I ended up head first on my back.

I tried digging the heelside of the board in and that slowed me a little, but not enough (and I was still sliding downhill head first). (I was sliding too fast to try to tuck and roll and land toeside -- which I've done a couple times before when falling on gentler terrain.) I managed to turn myself around by digging my forearm into the snow then jamming in heelside until I could get up and ride away.

I wasn't in any immediate danger because the trail was flattening to a runout (and was empty of other riders or skiers). But I wonder whether there's a more effective way of arresting such a slide.

Any advice?
post #2 of 23
Micheal,

That's the way I do it. When the snow is too hard to stop in a head first slide, you need to spin around. Dragging one hand at your side will cause a spin around. The farther out from the body or the deeper into the snow from the side of the body, the quicker you'll spin around.
post #3 of 23
Bump due to parallel thread in skiing forum. Rusty, given your approach to ski self-arrest, I must say your suggestion for riding seems rather more conventional, though if you have a parallel story to the one in the other thread I'll be on the edge of my seat. :
post #4 of 23
(Rusty had related a funny story in the ski forum, just pulling his leg.)
post #5 of 23
Two things:

First, catching "unexpected air" does not occur when

"riding under control".

"Control" involves looking ahead

and preparing for upcoming terrain.

When one is travelling at such a speed where one cannot

see and adjust to upcoming terrain changes, one is no

longer skiing/snowboarding in control.

We all do it occasionally .

Second:

Suggesting that simply extedning one's hand out onto

the surface, in a slide, will change one's attitude

presupposes both a slow-speed slide and soft

snow, as opposed to ice or hardpack.

Such a maneuver would do little on a frozen surface,

even on frozen corduroy at a "decent clip".


Hem
post #6 of 23
Ehh, Hem, speaking only for myself I'm not dipping my hand into soft snow as often as I'd like, and still have never had problems getting my board back under me. Second, it helps when busting people's chops, which I do all the time, to post how you'd do things differently.

Also, I like to hear about athletic riding, different from being out of control but no doubt another thread.
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
"Control" involves <...>
The committee will take your proposed definition under consideration.
post #8 of 23
I've had a couple of instances where I've needed to stop fairly quickly to avoid taking out other people, while in a head first belly slide. Granted, these weren't on very steep trails, but I was moving at a good clip on my alpine board. I usually do something like load the tip too hard and the board springs me into a front flip, but I land in a belly flop, going diagonally across the hill at a good rate of speed. I've had sucess doing a push up on my hands, and digging the toe edge of the board in the snow. I also get a good view of whatever I'm about to plow into. If given a little extra time, you can almost get to your knees and dig only the tip or tail into the snow (easier with high angles and hard boots) to spin yourself. Plus, if the snow was soft, your knees would probably dig in enough to stop you.
post #9 of 23

self-arrest

We did a steeps clinic at the Rider Rally a few years ago at Snowbird and "self-arrest" was part of the info we covered. It was fun to stand at the top of a steep run and puposely launch yourself into a slide. We practiced feet first on belly and back and then head first belly and back. The feet first slide, obviously, was a no brainer as far as how to get up (a quick point here: we were instructed not to try to dig the board in the snow, but instead get the board slightly diagonal and try to use the sidecut to almost turn out of it). The head first slide was the challenge. We were taught to make a maneuver that rearranged us to almost feet first on our (i think) back. Forgive me for not listing more details, but I can't remember them exactly as they were presented. I know that the move had something to do with extending one arm into the air and twisting the torso to start the "re-arrangement" of the slide. Once this move was initiated, the finish was to bring the board around beneath you. It was almost like breakdancing on the snow as you slid down hill. It was definitely appropriate to try to use the sidecut of the board to help in bringing the lower half down the hill. I'd liken the move to a freestyle (olympic) ski jumper who holds one arm up while approaching the jump and then uses that arm to initate their off-axis rotation and flip motion. Really great way to add some fun to a clinic, even if you're not working on steeps.

As far as riding in "control", I know I'm not perfect, and have had a snow snake jump up and buck me off the snow surface from time to time. Even when everything on the run is in full view.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
Second:

Suggesting that simply extedning one's hand out onto

the surface, in a slide, will change one's attitude

presupposes both a slow-speed slide and soft

snow, as opposed to ice or hardpack.

Such a maneuver would do little on a frozen surface,

even on frozen corduroy at a "decent clip".
Well Hem,
I have done this on a decent speed slide at Snowbird on a fairly firm groomed run (firm enough for me to lose my edge). You might be surprised how little friction you need to start rotating your body mass. Sure, by my definition of "frozen" (can spot loose change 1 inch down), I'd agree with you. But I laugh at what some people call ice.
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
Bump due to parallel thread in skiing forum. Rusty, given your approach to ski self-arrest, I must say your suggestion for riding seems rather more conventional, though if you have a parallel story to the one in the other thread I'll be on the edge of my seat. :
CT,

Sorry, I've yet to walk out of my snowboard binding on a steep run. I have self arrested on a board by trying to wrap it around a tree trunk. The rebound from that managed to embed my back into the wall of a tree well. Getting out of that mess was humorous to those on hand at the time.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Well Hem,
I have done this on a decent speed slide at Snowbird on a fairly firm groomed run (firm enough for me to lose my edge). You might be surprised how little friction you need to start rotating your body mass. Sure, by my definition of "frozen" (can spot loose change 1 inch down), I'd agree with you. But I laugh at what some people call ice.

Edge loss often has little to do with surface density.

I have lost my edgehold on wonderful, soft corduroy

due to momentary imbalance.

Why might I be surprised by how little friction is needed to start rotating one's mass?



Hem
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
...Suggesting that simply extedning one's hand out onto

the surface, in a slide, will change one's attitude

presupposes both a slow-speed slide and soft

snow, as opposed to ice or hardpack.

Such a maneuver would do little on a frozen surface,

even on frozen corduroy at a "decent clip".


Hem
Why you might be surprised by how little friction is needed to start rotating one's mass.
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Why you might be surprised by how little friction is needed to start rotating one's mass.

There is no implication, in my post, that I suffer a dearth

of experience in rotating my mass.


Hem
post #15 of 23
Rotate it then.
post #16 of 23
I should have known not to quibble words with someone using a writing handle. Thanks Telerod. Hem, methinks we understand each other well enough.
post #17 of 23
Hemthinks different.
:
post #18 of 23
Feel free to express hemthink in a way that people of average intelligence will understand.

You said "extedning one's arm will not affect attitude" in reply to a post that suggests extending one's arm will cause the rider to rotate. So we assumed by "attitude" you meant body position ie. getting the board downhill from one's self, because that is what the discussion was about.

There is no implication, in my post, that you suffer a dearth of experience in rotating your mass. However your post does imply that it cannot be done by extending one's arm unless it's a slow fall in soft snow.
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Feel free to express hemthink in a way that people of average intelligence will understand.

You said "extedning one's arm will not affect attitude" in reply to a post that suggests extending one's arm will cause the rider to rotate. So we assumed by "attitude" you meant body position ie. getting the board downhill from one's self, because that is what the discussion was about.

There is no implication, in my post, that you suffer a dearth of experience in rotating your mass. However your post does imply that it cannot be done by extending one's arm unless it's a slow fall in soft snow.

Thank You:

Evidently I did express myself in a way that people of

average intelligence will understand, as evidenced by

your last sentence.

On steep, icy surfaces, extedning one's arm, while

sliding at high speed, will do little aside from increasing

the probabilty of shoulder trauma.


Anyone who's fallen at high speed on steep ice is well-

aware of the ineffectivity of amr extension toward rolling

one's mass over in such a situation.



Hem
post #20 of 23
Thanks for the explanation. Of course we're all above average here... Although I enjoy your writing style and excellent vocabulary, this isn't the first time I've needed some clarifcation. I know you have a lot of good info, otherwise I wouldn't really bother trying to understand exactly what you mean.

For example, I had to look up attitude to learn it's primary meaning (body position). Usuallly when I hear attitude, it is in reference to my arrogant/hostile state of mind/disposition. Good to have an "English Pro" here. Haha
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Thanks for the explanation. Of course we're all above average here... Although I enjoy your writing style and excellent vocabulary, this isn't the first time I've needed some clarifcation. I know you have a lot of good info, otherwise I wouldn't really bother trying to understand exactly what you mean.

For example, I had to look up attitude to learn it's primary meaning (body position). Usuallly when I hear attitude, it is in reference to my arrogant/hostile state of mind/disposition. Good to have an "English Pro" here. Haha
I would like to put in for a new title under my name

Thank You

Hem

(ps Telerod: There are two types of individuals of above-average intellect:

Those who frequently consult the dictionary to learn new definitions,

and those who lie.

It is refreshing to share space in the former group with you.)
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
I would like to put in for a new title under my name

Thank You

Hem
you could give yourself a signature Hem
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
Anyone who's fallen at high speed on steep ice is well-aware of the ineffectivity of amr extension toward rolling one's mass over in such a situation.
I'm so confused. All this time I thought Michael and I were talking about spinning around from head first to feet first. We both seem to be well aware that arm extension did the job effectively from our own actual experience. I suppose if Michael was goofy he would have needed to roll over too, but he seems normal enough to me. Apparently I've rotated my attitude so much that I've lost my edge in this thread.
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