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Tuning Equipment

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
I have always brought my stuff to shops to be tuned and adjusted, however, I'm interested in starting to do that myself. I was wondering if anyone knew about how much the equipment to do basic waxing and sharpening would be. Not the best stuff, just some decent quality things. Thanks.
post #2 of 28
check this site out and do a search. http://www.tognar.com/There are tons of threads about tuning. Go for it. It's fun and feels good to do your own. Cheaper also after the initial expense.
post #3 of 28
Here's my 3rd post for the night on this (we really need to build a FAQ for this section). My advice is to buy one of these (depending on your budget): http://www.race-werks.com/store.php?...&sub_cat_id=49

Good quality stuff at a discount.
post #4 of 28
Thread Starter 
That looks great. Would I need anything else, such as iron and wax? Also, what’s the best way to find out the degree bevel on a pair of skis (GS11)?
post #5 of 28
Noodler:

So I have been contemplating doing my own tunes. I have found shop work is getting worse and worse every year, I do not know of any shop in my area that I trust to tune my skis and use a diamond stone?
I like the kits you recommended.

So the dilemma, Right now i have two pairs of skis I am actively using

1 Dynastar Legend Pro's: Came from the factory with a diamond tune. The factory tune is probably a good part of why the skis stand above most others. I want to restore the nice diamond tune they had. There is currently some minor rock damage on the base side of the edges.
So the Question: Will I need a base bevel tool to restore the skis? 350$ is allot of money.
Where is the easiest place to find what the Base/Edge bevel is for 2005 Gen 2 Dynastar Legend Pro Riders 186CM

2 Bro Models Soft: Base is 1Deg Side 2. No brainier here I want a diamond tune on these all the time. I am just hoping that the Dynastar are also 1&2

Anyway your thoughts on the what Kit to buy the 124$ job OK
Or am i quickly goanna want all the stuff in the 350$ box door #3 is not an option right now.
post #6 of 28
My only issue with these kits is that they include the SVST diamond files instead of the more expensive Moonflex. Although the SVST diamond files aren't bad (and much better than the DMT stuff) they're not as good as the Moonflex and your diamond files are such a critical part of your tuning kit that you really shouldn't skimp on them.

You mentioned the "diamond" tuning from the factory (or a shop tune machine). My honest opinion is that no shop or manufacturer has ever provided an edge as smoothly polished as I can do by hand with Moonflex diamond files (this includes my Stocklis which were pretty nice). I also don't believe you are giving up anything going with a 3 degree side bevel while you would be gaining better edge hold on the hard stuff.

Once the base and side bevels are set I generally never go near them with regular files again (unless something really, really, bad happens to the edge). I like to use a 200 grit diamond file (sometimes 100 if they're really bad) for re-sharpening (followed by 400 and 600). I like to use the edge guides whether I'm filing or polishing (to help control the quality of the tune) so I believe you would want the base bevel guide even if you're not going to file and set those bevels yourself.

Everything in both of those kits is worthwhile. I guess which one depends on how serious you're going to get about tuning and how often you're going to do it. I tune 2-3 pairs of skis per week. Over a 24 week season you can see how I can justify spending the money on the tuning tools. Neither kit includes a waxing iron so that would definitely need to be added. Even the $350 one is not fully complete, but could be for another $100-$200 in tools. I know these prices feel high, but when I look back at how much I've spent on tuning tools I realize I really should have started with one of these kits to save myself some money.
post #7 of 28
Try my site for discounted tuning equipment.
post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
Anyone know a good place to get a Moonflex 400 grit file and a good 3 side and .5 base degree guide to hold it for a cheap price? I have been trying to decide between a 400 and 200 grit Moonflex for day to day maintenance and thought the 400 would be a little more conservative for the edge. As for the guide, I just don’t know which a good one and which isn’t.
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by camhabib
Anyone know a good place to get a Moonflex 400 grit file and a good 3 side and .5 base degree guide to hold it for a cheap price? I have been trying to decide between a 400 and 200 grit Moonflex for day to day maintenance and thought the 400 would be a little more conservative for the edge. As for the guide, I just don’t know which a good one and which isn’t.
PM Angus7

His prices are good so you may be able to afford two stones.

Get an SVST 3 degree side edge guide with a spring clamp.

If you only have one stone get a 200.

If you already have something to knock the burrs off then get the 400.

Hold off on the base guide until you have more money.
post #10 of 28
Here's some advice on edges:
http://www.racewax.com/tuneedge.html
post #11 of 28
The Race Place has an affordable line of tuning supplies and some "how to tune/wax" info on its site. http://www.ski-racing.com/about.htm

For basic tuning a 2nd cut file ski specific file, medium diamond stone, gummi stone and a side edge file guide should get you started. While some stones are arguably better than others a lot has to do with proper maintenance. Keep the stone clean and wet with a 50/50 solution of denatured alcohol (you can buy the alcohol at any hardware store for less than $5) and water.

For waxing, an iron with a reliable thermostat, a plastic scraper, wax and a brush suitable for the wax you usually use will work to get you started. Although there are scraper sharpeners, scraper sharpening with very fine sandpaper on a flat surface will also work.

BTW, I just noticed that in this month's SKIING magazine there is a ski tuning article by Scott Holmer, the owner of the Race Place and the designer of the BEAST line of tuning supplies. Part II comes in next month's edition.
post #12 of 28
angus7 does have good prices on Moonflex and other stuff. I picked up a SVST side edge tool and Moonflex 100 and 400 from him.
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler
My only issue with these kits is that they include the SVST diamond files instead of the more expensive Moonflex. Although the SVST diamond files aren't bad (and much better than the DMT stuff) they're not as good as the Moonflex and your diamond files are such a critical part of your tuning kit that you really shouldn't skimp on them.

You mentioned the "diamond" tuning from the factory (or a shop tune machine). My honest opinion is that no shop or manufacturer has ever provided an edge as smoothly polished as I can do by hand with Moonflex diamond files (this includes my Stocklis which were pretty nice). I also don't believe you are giving up anything going with a 3 degree side bevel while you would be gaining better edge hold on the hard stuff.

Once the base and side bevels are set I generally never go near them with regular files again (unless something really, really, bad happens to the edge). I like to use a 200 grit diamond file (sometimes 100 if they're really bad) for re-sharpening (followed by 400 and 600). I like to use the edge guides whether I'm filing or polishing (to help control the quality of the tune) so I believe you would want the base bevel guide even if you're not going to file and set those bevels yourself.

Everything in both of those kits is worthwhile. I guess which one depends on how serious you're going to get about tuning and how often you're going to do it. I tune 2-3 pairs of skis per week. Over a 24 week season you can see how I can justify spending the money on the tuning tools. Neither kit includes a waxing iron so that would definitely need to be added. Even the $350 one is not fully complete, but could be for another $100-$200 in tools. I know these prices feel high, but when I look back at how much I've spent on tuning tools I realize I really should have started with one of these kits to save myself some money.
I know we have discussed this before, but after talking to a couple of techs, I think you are misintrepreting the ceramic disc grind finish on factory & machined tuned skis. The ceramic disc grind pattern leaves the edge very, very highly polished and consistent. (Next time you are at a shop look at a new ski down the edge not straight at it!). I think you just think your edges are more polished and unless you are racing downhill or maybe SG, what possible advantage is there to trying to polish your edge to such a high degree. I don't go over a 400 grit Moonflex on any of our general purpose skis or slalom race skis and I start with a 100 Moonflex to remove the burrs and nicks. I find 200 is not burly enough.

SG & DH's i will go as high as 1000 and wax the sidewalls!


Secondly, I never diamond stone my base edge when first setting base edge angle or during later touch ups.

Diamond stoning or even refiling and polishing your side edge is all that is needed. Even with a base edge beveler, you are just going to increase your base edge bevel as you polish, which already happens to some degree by skiing on them.

I do agree a 3 degree has little or no downside including the the misinformed notion that they dull faster, they don't!
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
...Secondly, I never diamond stone my base edge. Either when first setting base edge angle or duringlater touch ups...
A-Man, how do you fix rough spots on your base edges? Do you just leave it there?
post #15 of 28
camhabib,
First decide just how much you want to do. Are you handy with hand tools? A person can do damage by filing too much just as well as by filing in the wrong place. If you want to do a really complete job, you'll also need a vise, about $100 & up.

I'd get a guide for a medium stone and a fine stone for removing the nicks from edges and giving them a final finish. I'd get a true bar to know if the bottoms are either convex or concave and need a stone grind. I'd get an iron for applying wax, and some all-temp wax. That's all. I have a very good shop that gets the skis for a yearly complete tune. I don't worry about minor gouges in the bases. The P-Tex candles I've used in the past to drip P-Tex into the gouges didn't stick (maybe better wax removal was needed). I don't scrape and brush off excess wax...I just ski it off.

I just got a Skivisions Skisharp with files, medium, and fine stones. The FK Multiedge Tuner will do as well more slowly.

I like 1/2° base edge bevel for dry snow and 1° base edge bevel for wet snow. I use 2° (88°) side edge bevel; 3° has the risk of knocking out too much edge material when a rock is hit.

I buy equipment from Tognar.com or artechski.com


Ken
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
A-Man, how do you fix rough spots on your base edges? Do you just leave it there?
I use a TOKO finishing block or a hard gummi only in that spot, but usually the hard gummi or arkansas stone i use to knock off the hanging burr from doing the side edge takes care of it!
post #17 of 28
this article is from the Holmenkol site by Dave Peszek about prepping new skis.

Read #3 - Base Edge

http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/data...s/Dig%20In.pdf

Also:

http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/data...0Bevel%202.pdf

Also:

http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/data...our%20Skis.pdf
post #18 of 28
deleted! duplicate
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy
The Race Place has an affordable line of tuning supplies and some "how to tune/wax" info on its site. http://www.ski-racing.com/about.htm

For basic tuning a 2nd cut file ski specific file, medium diamond stone, gummi stone and a side edge file guide should get you started. While some stones are arguably better than others a lot has to do with proper maintenance. Keep the stone clean and wet with a 50/50 solution of denatured alcohol (you can buy the alcohol at any hardware store for less than $5) and water.

For waxing, an iron with a reliable thermostat, a plastic scraper, wax and a brush suitable for the wax you usually use will work to get you started. Although there are scraper sharpeners, scraper sharpening with very fine sandpaper on a flat surface will also work.

BTW, I just noticed that in this month's SKIING magazine there is a ski tuning article by Scott Holmer, the owner of the Race Place and the designer of the BEAST line of tuning supplies. Part II comes in next month's edition.
Thank you for the site info. I found it very useful!
BTW, what kind of wax iron do you recommend? (you know, for a mere mortal, without much cash..)
post #20 of 28
I used to sell expensive irons, but after I got this one I dropped them. It is great quality for the price. Look at the TOKO wax mouse and you will see that this iron is the exact same iron but with a Wintersteiger name on it; mine is $15-$20 less. I have sold almost 200 of these this year.

http://www.racewax.com/productpages/orangewaxiron.html
post #21 of 28
The iron in the post above is listed on that site for $44.99. Toko mouse is available at $54.95. Sure wish I'd seen the above iron three days back.
post #22 of 28
I use a Swix iron with a heavy plate mostly because I'm kind of anal about these things and a heavier plate tends to reduce temperature variations and the thermostat is more accurate than a household iron is likely to be.
However, household iron will do. A lot of people here at Epic use them. If using a household iron find one that preferably is without holes.

A household iron's thermostat may not be very accurate, so take care that the wax doesn't smoke when in contact with the iron. That's a very good indicator that the iron is too hot. If the iron is one with holes in the base, if allowed to plug up with wax it can thow off the thermostat.
post #23 of 28
The iron discussed above has a heavy plate and maintains its temperature evenly. The other thing to consider is the wattage. Buy an iron that is at least 800 W.
post #24 of 28

Hot waxer

Ive been using a Hertel hot waxer for a couple of years. The company isn't making this product anymore but I was able to get one on E-bay. Its really easy and efficient to use.
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RACEWAXdotCOM
I used to sell expensive irons, but after I got this one I dropped them. It is great quality for the price. Look at the TOKO wax mouse and you will see that this iron is the exact same iron but with a Wintersteiger name on it; mine is $15-$20 less. I have sold almost 200 of these this year.

http://www.racewax.com/productpages/orangewaxiron.html
I went to the above site. I can't figure out how to purchase the item online (nowhere to go to..). sorry, sounds stupid, but please help.
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skicrazed
I went to the above site. I can't figure out how to purchase the item online (nowhere to go to..). sorry, sounds stupid, but please help.
Back up to www.racewax.com. From there, you have to follow a link or two, but it should be pretty obvious.

Do I get a commission?
post #27 of 28
Thanks! I got it!
post #28 of 28
Commission? Sure! In combination with a purchase I'll let you know when I am hiring, you're good!

Sorry, I linked to the product page and you had to click on the title to go to the home page.
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