EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Atomic R:11 or Volkl Vertigo Motion?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Atomic R:11 or Volkl Vertigo Motion?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have narrowed my choices down to these two skis. I was considering the T50, but decided it may be just a but too much for me. The only negatives I have read about the Vertigo Motion is that if you skid any, the tips really chatter on hard pack or ice(I have seen a couple of people mention this). I really hate the chatter. That is one of the main reasons I am wanting to get new skis, the ones I have really chatter (I was wanting the T50 so I could get the Piston Motion and reduce chatter). I have also heard that the Vertigo Motions are damp (like many Vokl's supposedly are). The only real negative I have read about the R:11 is that they are very heavy to carry if you are going to do any hiking. Any suggestions to help me pick a ski? I was also considering the Bandit XX but I just think it is a bit too wide (74).

I am 5' 10.5" 170lbs, level 7-8 skier, maybe 65% on piste. I like moguls very much, but I am relatively new to them (this is why I was nervous about getting a really stiff, unforgiving ski like the T50 5*). I am considering 180 length in the R:11 and 177 in the Vertigo Motion. The skis I have now are about 6 or maybe 7 years old (Head Cyber 20x 180 97/61/86).
post #2 of 24
Have you, or will you have an opportunity to try each ski before you buy? That would be ideal. Both skis are excellent. I doubt that you would be unhappy with either. My only suggestion is that you consider going down to the next shorter length. You won't give up anything in stability, and they will be more manueverable. What size and model of ski do you have now?
post #3 of 24
If the piston motion is what you really desire then I would just buy the binding seperately then put them on whatever ski you desire, I would highly recomend trying before you buy. I've never skied the R:11 but I have skied both the Motion and its motionless counterpart the G3 which I highly recomend if you don't have the neccesary funds for either the motion or the T50. Another option is if you can find last years piston control binding at a good price you could get the T50 without the binding and mount the binding seperately.
post #4 of 24
If you're concerned about the R:11 weight (and that plate is heavy, and ditto for the Atomic bindings), then why not try the somewhat similar R:9 (which allows any choice of binding)?
post #5 of 24
The R:11 is a stiff ski You may want to set your sights on the R:10 From what you have said here The R:10 might be a better ski for you or even The R:9. The R:9 is the best in the bumps of all the Atomics listed here. All the Atomics have great grip on the Hard snow. By the way I have The R:11,R:10 and R:922 (now the R:9) listed for sale in the ski swap forum. All mounted with the 412 Binding.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by U.P. Racer:
Have you, or will you have an opportunity to try each ski before you buy? That would be ideal. Both skis are excellent. I doubt that you would be unhappy with either. My only suggestion is that you consider going down to the next shorter length. You won't give up anything in stability, and they will be more manueverable. What size and model of ski do you have now?
I now ski on 180cm Head Cyber 20X skis that have about the same sidecut as the Volkl Vertigo Motion skis but are about 8-10 narrower at tip, waist & tail. I would like to try the skis, but I live in the south and the two shops here don't demo skis, but I would like to have some new skis for my trip to whistler.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Utah49:
The R:11 is a stiff ski You may want to set your sights on the R:10 From what you have said here The R:10 might be a better ski for you or even The R:9. The R:9 is the best in the bumps of all the Atomics listed here. All the Atomics have great grip on the Hard snow. By the way I have The R:11,R:10 and R:922 (now the R:9) listed for sale in the ski swap forum. All mounted with the 412 Binding.
Well, initially I was considering the R:10, but someone told me it would a special order for him and that it is now listed as a ladies ski (???). I didn't think this was true. I read somewhere that Atomic softened up the R:10 (as compared to the Ride 10). I don't know if this is true though.
post #8 of 24
I'd go a little shorter than 180. You won't be sorry. Maybe 170 to 175?
post #9 of 24
I can't offer you any advise on the skis you are considering, but let me say this. You say that the tips on the Volkl's chatter when skid on ice. ANY ski is going to chatter when skid. As long as the ski is riding a pure carving edge it will remain stable and on line. The only exceptions would be if you were really pushing hard (in the gates) or the ski was rediculously soft. I don't think that the skis you mention are too soft. As long as the skis are carving don't worry about chatter.

As for the Piston Control, I have it on 4 pair of race skis this year and also used it last year. In my opinion the benefits are minimal. In short turns I can't see any difference between other bindings. In powerful GS turns I can feel it comes to life at the end of the turn. When the bend in the ski is released the piston smoothes out the "snap" or "wobble" that the ski produces thus allowing for a cleaner, more stable edge to be engaged in the new turn. It doesn't do anything for chatter during the course of a turn.

Don't let the binding influence your choice of ski. Every company makes a very good binding. If you ski better on the Volkl go with that. If you like the Atomic better then buy that one.
post #10 of 24
I had a pair of last years Volkl Vertigo Motions and ended up returning them to Volkl because they chattered so much. If you stayed in soft snow they were fine, but on anything steep and icy they would chatter you off the mountain. I was later told by two different people prominent in the ski industry that the Technica boots that I was skiing in also contributed to the problem because of their design features. In defense of Volkl, they took them back without any problem, and issued a credit for them right away. In the past I always have been treated very well by the people at Technica and Volkl, it was just a case of not being the right setup for me. I know that they have changed that ski somewhat for this year by adding a rubber damping tip and an extra layer of fiberglass, which will probably help. In regards to the Atomics, I have some limited experience with them. The R 11 is a great ski, but it might be more than you want, especially if you're just getting into bumps. The R 10.20 or 22 would probably be a lot easier to handle. And no, the R 10.20 is not the same ski as a couple of years ago, the old 10.20 had titainium in it, as compared to carbon in the new 10.20 and 22, and was quite heavy.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac:
I had a pair of last years Volkl Vertigo Motions and ended up returning them to Volkl because they chattered so much. If you stayed in soft snow they were fine, but on anything steep and icy they would chatter you off the mountain. I was later told by two different people prominent in the ski industry that the Technica boots that I was skiing in also contributed to the problem because of their design features. In defense of Volkl, they took them back without any problem, and issued a credit for them right away. In the past I always have been treated very well by the people at Technica and Volkl, it was just a case of not being the right setup for me. I know that they have changed that ski somewhat for this year by adding a rubber damping tip and an extra layer of fiberglass, which will probably help. In regards to the Atomics, I have some limited experience with them. The R 11 is a great ski, but it might be more than you want, especially if you're just getting into bumps. The R 10.20 or 22 would probably be a lot easier to handle. And no, the R 10.20 is not the same ski as a couple of years ago, the old 10.20 had titainium in it, as compared to carbon in the new 10.20 and 22, and was quite heavy.
Thanks! This really helps. I really think I would like the 10.20, but I just didn't want a ski that I would outgrow in a year or two. I can't afford to buy new skis every 2-3 years. I guess the main difference between the 10 & 11 is the stiffness (titatium vs carbon) and the 10 is a little less sidecut and a little wider at the waist (72 vs 70). I just have not heard anyone mention that the R:11 or R:10 are skis that chatter, but I have heard 3 people mention the Vertigo Motion. Maybe with my boots and style and this years update, they might be fine, but I am not willing to take that chance when I can get the R:10 w/ bindings for the same price. You mention the 10.20 and 10.22, do they make an R:10.22? I have not seen this.
post #12 of 24
Atomic can be pretty confusing with all their numberings that they change from year to year. This years' R:10 is the same ski as last years' 10:20. Same dimensions as the R:11 (last years' 11:20) 108-70-99, but with a softer flex and different core material. This years' R:9 is the same ski as last years' 9:22 (106-72-98), which has been around for a few years now. Good ski, very versatile, probably somewhere in between the the R:11 and the R:10 performance wise. Would make a good one quiver ski for anyone up to a very agressive expert. Lighter, too, does not have the built in Atomic lifter plate, and therefore will accomodate any binding, unlike the other two. I have a friend who has a pair and really likes them, although I have never skied them myself.
Hope this helps
post #13 of 24
Forgot to mention: If your interested, I know a shop that has some leftover pairs of the models we're talking about for a good price. Skis are the same as this years, slightly different graphics. Let me know, I'll send you the info.
post #14 of 24
I ski the R:11 in a 180. I also have a pair of 180 cm 11.20's from last season(Same as the R:11 just different graphics. with Xentrix 6.14's on them for sale. They are in fabulous shape.

email me at volklman@aol.com if your interested!

The 11.20/R:11 is a fairly demanding ski, I absolutely love them. No chatter at all, carves like a race ski on hardpack & busts crud like crazy. Powder is no problem.

One thing that may help if you get any Atomicis to go to a 1 degree base bevel & a 2 degree side edge bevel. They come 1 & 3 from the factory. This makes the ski more demanding & more exacting of your carving technique.

These are all great skis, although the T50 is new. I believe Atomic has an edge in it's Beta construction. Their skis seem to be longitudinally softer with greater torsional rigidity (read edgehold & no chatter) The bindings are fabulous and free floating, as is there plate and this provides a true feel of total ski flex. I have not skied the Motion's but did ski Volkl's for 25 years and last had a pair of g31 Vertigo's in a 188. My Atomics ski circles around them. But I did love the Volkl's in their time!

Marker bindings also have aabout a 4mm ramp angle (heel is higher off the ski) Atomic's are flat, so if you have any stance work done in the process of boot fitting, make sure your boot fitter know what binding you are on or you can end up jacked way too far forward.

I would try to demo them all. Only you can tell what is the right ski for you!

Over & out!

Cliff
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac:
Forgot to mention: If your interested, I know a shop that has some leftover pairs of the models we're talking about for a good price. Skis are the same as this years, slightly different graphics. Let me know, I'll send you the info.
Mac, thanks for the info. You can send the info to lemmy999@hotmail.com.
post #16 of 24
My 2 cents. I've skied the R9,R10,and R11. The R11 and R10 have exactly the same sidecut 108-70-99(180). The R10 has carbon power channels and is the lighter weight of the two. Not really just a woman's ski at all. Feels lighter and quicker than the R11. Holds with less effort than the R11 at low to medium speeds and is decent in moguls. The R11 really comes to life at higher speeds, more stable and powerful than the R10 at speed and in difficult snow. This ski is more of an experts tool though a 7-8 level skier will enjoy it too. Length choice R10 170-180, R11 definitely 170 as a 7-8 skier. The shorter ski will perform better at moderate speeds. The R9 might be the best choice of all for you. best bump ski of the three and very good grip to boot.This years ski(R9) is the same sidecut as the 9.22 but is now a B4 construction which means the beta tubes(power channels) have been moved out towards the edges giving it better hold on hard snow and a softer flex. This is a ski that you could definitely rip on in all conditions on and off piste. sidecut is slightly wider 108-72-100(180). You could ski this in a 180 or 170 depending on where you intend to use it most. Atomics don't chatter.
post #17 of 24
Mac, how did these people tell you that your boots were contributing to ski chatter?

Unless the ski is super soft it should not chatter when skied correctly. Don't sit back and use your edges to carve the turn rather than skidding your heels out.

My husband has the Motions and loves them, he didn't mention anything about chatter and here in Oz we get our fair share of ice and wind blown crud. He is 178 cm and went for the 170cm skis.

I havn't skied Atomic for a few years, but a friend has the 9.11 and likes it although it is heavy which if you are just getting into bumps is very unhelpful.
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was confused about the Vertigo G3 and Vertigo Motion being the exact same ski, with one being Motion and the other one not (this is what Volkl USA told me twice). I noticed that (unlike in the US) on the euro page, they offer the G3 in the Motion 1200. I thought it odd that they would offer the G3 in Motion 1200 and the Vertigo Motion in the Motion 1200. So I emailed Volkl UK and this is the response he gave me:

Quote:
there is some wisdom in your comments, but the main error in your logic is
THAT THE G3 AND THE VERT MOTION ARE NOT THE SAME SKI.
the diference is (like the carver motion and the V4) the g3 is slightly
stiffer in both flex and torsion in the fore-body, and is designed for the
more sport orientated
aggressive skier.......ah g31 memories do come back!!
the vertigo motion is smoother/quieter on snow, a little more exclusive as
its (and carver motion's) cosmetics show

The American market is still fixed on ski and then binding sales (where
Marker is strong #1) which is why the US has lots of non-motion skis.
I had also been confused by the same person reviewing the G3 and Vertigo Motion and coming up with much different comments. I guess this explains why.
post #19 of 24
Bec,
This is a fairly long story. I'll send you a PM when I have a minute, as I don't want to go throwing peoples names around over the airwaves.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by lemmy999:
I was confused about the Vertigo G3 and Vertigo Motion being the exact same ski, with one being Motion and the other one not (this is what Volkl USA told me twice). </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> there is some wisdom in your comments, but the main error in your logic is
THAT THE G3 AND THE VERT MOTION ARE NOT THE SAME SKI.
the diference is (like the carver motion and the V4) the g3 is slightly
stiffer in both flex and torsion in the fore-body, and is designed for the
more sport orientated
aggressive skier.......ah g31 memories do come back!!
the vertigo motion is smoother/quieter on snow, a little more exclusive as
its (and carver motion's) cosmetics show
I had also been confused by the same person reviewing the G3 and Vertigo Motion and coming up with much different comments. I guess this explains why.</font>[/quote]I guess this is a problem caused by the marketing boys. Some skis are rebranded just for a particular distributor let alone a geographic market. As lots of Brits ski all over the world rather than at home [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] we can be the cause of less illumination than we intend with our helpful comments.

My own feeling. I loved the ski (Motion Vertigo), chattering was a comment made by some friends who skied it but I didn't notice it and the Marker binding system sucked (it broke twice, once bigtime).
Last year the ski was reviewed as advanced, this year it is in the expert category. As usual, it maybe isn't really exactly the same ski.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by lemmy999:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Utah49:
The R:11 is a stiff ski You may want to set your sights on the R:10 From what you have said here The R:10 might be a better ski for you or even The R:9. The R:9 is the best in the bumps of all the Atomics listed here. All the Atomics have great grip on the Hard snow. By the way I have The R:11,R:10 and R:922 (now the R:9) listed for sale in the ski swap forum. All mounted with the 412 Binding.
Well, initially I was considering the R:10, but someone told me it would a special order for him and that it is now listed as a ladies ski (???). I didn't think this was true. I read somewhere that Atomic softened up the R:10 (as compared to the Ride 10). I don't know if this is true though.</font>[/quote]Ladies ski! I'd run, not walk, away from that ski shop. First of all; while there are some small number of women specific skis on the market that change the mount point and take into consideration the "usually" less weight of the skier, the Atomic R:10 is not one of those - and most aggressive women skiers don't opt for those and most ski manufactures don't go that route, as it's usually just a marketing ploy anyway . Second; from your post, you havn't told us whether your a women or a man, but I gather from the ski shop persons commment that your a man, and he was trying to say "it's a ladies ski, you don't want that, don't make me special order it, just be a man an buy what I have" - bull -- not only insulting to the ladies, but to you too. I know several "ladies" that can out ski 98% of the men out there. Third: I find it more than a little interesting, that every year a new ski comes out from any given manufacturer with a bigger number, bigger stats, new ingredients, etc... the king ski from last year is all of a sudden relegated to the intermediate level as the new model ascends to the expert level catagory - you see this in ski mags reviews all the time.

Ok now that that rant is over:

I'm about your size, 5'11'' 173 lbs, while I know there are better skiers out there, I like to consider myself at the expert level; I ski everything all over out west, and east coast, and I club race too.
I've skied last years 11:20 and 10:20 beta ride and I own and love my 10:20 beta rides of a few years ago. I also own and still ski and love some 3-4 year old 9.20 beta rides, they were the carbon version of the original 10.20 beta rides, softer, but still had the integrated charger lifter plate, unlike the most recent crop of 9.20s. All these skis, I would consider expert level skis. I also have 2 pairs last years 9.22's, one mounted alpine, one monted tele, and love these for all mountain use and off piste. So I'm a ski nut, I can't help myself. My girlfrind is on the 10.20s of a few years ago the titainium ones.
Ok, why I'm I telling you this? to help you make a decision; of course, you should demo if you can.

You mentioned you live in the south and you also mentioned ice, but where to you ski? Do you ski out west on ski trips? East coast? or south east, like North Carolina?
The R:11 is a rippin on piste machine, this is the ski you want if your gona whale the whole mountain on piste, esp. east coast ice. It can be taken off piste too, and will bust through crud like no ones business, but it's stiffness will be work in powder and bumps.
The R:10, same as R:11, you really won't notice much difference unless your braking the sound barrier through refrozen piste with death cookies. All these skis are torsionally ridgid, but the r:10 and the 9.22 are longitudially softer, so bumps and powder may be more fun.

9.22 or R9 is an all mountain expert ski. This ski will take you front side and back side. It will hold great on ice, but not as good as R:10 or R:11. The R:10 and R:11 will carve better with the integrated charger plate. The 9.22 or R:9 is more of a finesse ski, it's like a sports car, compared to the r:11 being a muscle car. It will do better in the bumps than the other two.
It is lighter also.

So you need to ask your self; where do you ski mostly, what conditions do you usually ski in, how to you like to ski, etc... and demo if you can.
Hope this helps
post #22 of 24
Lemmy,

I agree with the advice of finding the ski that works best for you. As to bindings, I think Marker has the best AFD of them all. The 1300 and 1400 Marker bindings not only have Piston control but the have the Comstock Shock that is suppose to protect against premature toe release. Since you like the bumps, this may be something to consider.
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
I think that I am going to end up going with the Atomic R:10 ski and the 4.12 binding. Now I just have to decide on a length. The shaped skis I have now are 180s (6-7 year old Head Cyber 20x 97/61/86) and I was planning on going 175-177 in any new skis, but since Atomics only come in 170 and 180, I am not sure what I am going to get. U.P. Racer suggested I go for the 170 and he has got me seriously considering it. Thanks for everyone's knowledgeable comments and suggestions.
post #24 of 24
Like I said, I'm about your size and the 180's are perfect. If you race, go short, but your not looking at race skis. You said 65% on piste, that leeds me to beleive you go off onto into powder, or crud and other wild snow, your going to need the xtra length for float and stability.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Atomic R:11 or Volkl Vertigo Motion?