Originally Posted by ssh
Does sore muscles count?
Did you check the thread that cgeib referenced earlier? If the ski is edged and you torque it along its horizontal axis, which way does the tip go?
The only time you create a rotation in the plane of the snow is when the plane of the ski and the plane of the snow are the same. You always apply it to the plane of the ski, not of the snow.
I guarantee you that you can do this. You can stand on a carving ski with no rotational pressure and ride the carve. Then, on the same terrain make the same turns but apply a little rotational pressure while the skis are on edge. Observe what happens.
Warning: doing this all day is likely to produce muscle soreness that you haven't experienced before! :
I am pretty confidant that I understand the steered turns you, Chris, and others are describing. You see it on the hill regularly. In my mind it is the main point of identification used in the gross generalization: "he/she skis like an instructor." Note that I'm not making any judgement here about good or bad. It certainly is something that most any competent skier can do.
I wonder it the sore muscles comment is relevant here. My whole point is that I think in general (not trying to cover all situations here) that the goal should be to try and learn to replace steering for "tightening" of a turn with increased tipping and edge angle. In my experience this is more efficient and hence less stressful to the muscles.
One issue not covered here, that I think involves even more complex physics, is if a skier differentially bends the front of the ski more so than the tail. I don't think that's what anyone is talking about here, however.
Originally Posted by cgeib
I can sort of understand where you're coming from. However, if you practice isolating rotary and tipping movements, then don't you think a practiced individual would be able to recognize what they are applying?
Is Ric applying a rotary force below, or is it a result of pure tipping?
In terms of the pivot slips: It seems to me there can be varying degrees of rotary in pivot slip type drills. I actually learned to do a very similar like drill by just releasing my edge (reverse tipping?) and passively letting my tips fall down and around the fall line. Very little, if any torque applied in that case. However, I don't deny the heavy torque applied in the animation.