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Mantra vs im88 vs 8800 - latest conclusions - Page 2

post #31 of 48

da man

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Just got em!!! Man they look sweet!! Quiver is complete for now.
Volkl: 724 pro 170, allstar 168, mantra 177!!
ski=free =

Da man!



Enjoy you lucky puppy!!!!
post #32 of 48
Thanks, can't wait to get em mounted tomorrow and ski em sunday. I guess I'll be giving a review of mantras on east coast ice at Killington. Also bringing my ice weapons(allstars)!!
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Thanks, can't wait to get em mounted tomorrow and ski em sunday. I guess I'll be giving a review of mantras on east coast ice at Killington. Also bringing my ice weapons(allstars)!!
back end of the storm might be white/ depends on the timing and track as usual...you might be posting a review of Mantras on big K cement......

Looking forward to your thread ....I have my sights set on the same quiver.....
post #34 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
something to think about...

just because your mind can create all those categories and distinctions,

do you think the ski cares?
Bs"D
That's actually pretty funny.

And, Coach's follow up is equally amusing:
"No sh!t.
I think we're over ANALyzing things a bit here."

Even though I can't say I'm convinced, I'm ready to leave all this at least until I demo in another couple of weeks.
Just wish me the one thing that is not imaginary or over prioritized - an insane amount of the light and dry. And, in this I have no confusion of personal taste - I'll take 3% water please.

Oh, yeah, just one more thing though - can you please tell which friekin ski to get?!!! ;-)
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadRab
Bs"D
and I tell you that the 8800, despite being a good powder and crud ski, absolutely sucks on ice.

I think the issue boils down to the following - even for a totally dedicated powder ski, when there is no "fear" of confronting hardpack:

that allows me to ski in the powder

surf the powder more like the affect a snowboard. Something like the Gotama, or even wider, not to mention the even more extreme 07' Pontoon which will have to be tried to see exactly what its reverse camber and half reverse sidecut does.

Now, within the first catagory itself, you have skis like the 8800, which, although wider than powder skis of 13 yrs ago, which were sort of just like GS skis with softer tips and more even flex patterns, is still closer to that concept.....and will be more stable at speed (although the 8800 is also plenty stable).... if you do come across any hardpack after all, they will be much better than the 8800.

Is anybody else as undecided as I am?
Radrab:
Have to agree the 8800 is not a great ice ski, but it isn't supposed to be, would new edge bevels improve it here? Would be nice but not worth writting off the ski because of this. It's a all mountain ski mostly designed for fresh and deeper snow. I feel it works just fine on groomers but does lack the bite on ice and extremely hard pack.

If you live in the west it's a great everyday ski, if you live where ice and very hardpack prevail it become a specialized occasional use ski and would be silly to buy and use as a everyday ski.

I can't agree more that the 8800 skis in the powder instead of on top. I simply cannot see the point in floating ontop and missing out on one of lifes greater pleasures. I still beleive 100 waist skis are silly and useless for all but patrollers and dedicated heli skiers. Which is why I bought the 8800 instead of the Pro.

I also would clasify the 8800 as more of a GS ski and that it may not be the best hardpack ski around but for it's positive sides in deeper or fresh I can live with that. It certainly isn't terrible on hard just not a ripping carve ski.

I still say we will see fat boards phase out and go back to being the dedicated or occasionaly used tool it should be. Right now ski companies are selling lots of fat skis and fat skis are getting lots of press because they let in-experianced riders ski powder. But are they really skiing it or simply floating over top (similar to 10cm fresh on cord) The skilled skiers I don't understand why they ride a 100 mm waist on a 2 foot powder day. Seems a waste of perfectly good powder.

The 8800 I think is a great combination of hardpack resort ski and a Oohh it looks fresh over there lets hit it board. Put one ski on and go, perhaps not the best at everything but good when and where it counts. The deeper more technical stuff. If I am going to whine about hardpack I will go put my other skis on.

Pontoons well this is just getting stupid ville now. If I see anyone with them on at a resort I would call them a moron poser.
A) you have more money than skill
B) you don't know how to ski pow so you bought big boards to compensate
C) you really are a big mountain ripper and forgot the right pair of skis at home by mistake
post #36 of 48
I don't think any inexperienced skiers are skiing fast enough in deep powder to truly "float on top" and miss out on the older powder skiing sensations.

As noted on another post, most of us are partially planed when we ski powder anyway. The various widths & flex characteristics just affect how the ski behaves in this transitional stage. The addition of a turned up tail, etc. just adds to the playfullness of the ski, etc.

Don't confuse a ski like the Gotama with the old generic "powder skis" used by helicopter-chartering fat businessmen (some of which ski powder very well).

I don't see anything wrong with the increasing widths, backcountry twintips, etc. other than the fact that the options are now confusing as hell.

While I haven't skied your 8800, I have skied the 8000 (last year) which I thought was a wonderful ski for all conditions (hardpack, bumps, powder, crud). I would probably buy one of the two if I had not tried the Mantra and Mojo 90 this year and had similar experiences.

My range of possible ski choices (as a primary ski) right now cover the 8000 to the Gotamas! By the way, the ski patroller that I catskied with 2 weeks ago was not floating on the top of the snow with his Gotamas. Meanwhile, the guides seemed to like their new 8800's.

As long as the wider skis still peform adequately on western groomers and in bumps, I don't care how fat it they get.
post #37 of 48
Thread Starter 
Bs"D
Sorry for being so late with this update, but for whatever it is worth to whoever, here it is:

My Dynastar 8800, which I originally decided on as my first choice for a powder and crud ski when I bought it last year, still remains that choice.

Since its one shortcoming is that it does not hold well or carve well on hardpack-ice, I started to wonder whether skis like the Head im88 or Mantra, for example, would be a better choice for more versatility on marginal days after the storm or coming back to the front side etc..
As you might remember, towards keeping the 8800s, the suggestion was also made to try putting a 3 degree side bevel on them to give them more edge hold.

My demo and experimental tuning research were both cut short due to the following positive development. My new Head Supershapes (skied a little longer than a usual SL @ 170cm - the best all around ski I have ever used) turned out to be so versatile, also handling moderate powder (unlike an old school SL), that I realized I could save the 8800 for those rarer true powder days (got a great one at Vail!) when very little if any hardpack is to be found anywhere on the mountain. And, as a pure powder ski, I love the 8800.

On my Feb. trips to Vail and Snowbird I nevertheless decided to try the Mantra, realizing I would not be able to make the above statements here without having aquired first hand experience with the popular so called versatile powder ski.
I can say without hesitation that I prefer the 8800 hands down. The Mantra did hold and carve a little better than the Legend on the groomers, but of course they can't even compare to a true carving ski like the SS, and, again, I will be on the SS on any day except a full powder day, and then the marginally better versatility of the Mantra over the 8800 is not necessary.
When you do get powder, I prefered the slightly softer overall flex, smoother more even flex pattern, and shallower sidecut of the Dynastar in any 3D conditions. It is still firm enough and powerful enough for the crud. And, I don't need or prefer anything wider than the 8800s dimensions (I did also try a couple of other wider boards).

So, I can't say how much a three degree bevel would make a difference since I didn't do it. And, I can't say I have tried all of the wider powder boards on the market or new thinking like the K2 Pontoon, but I am a very happy customer with a narrowed to two quiver of the amazing SS, and my still winning Legend 8800. Now, if someone could just sell me more powder days...
post #38 of 48
What length is your 8800s? How much do you weigh?

I recently was out at Alta trying out my 178cm 8800s in powder (I weigh 145 lb). At first, I had trouble turning the skis in tight conditions. I think mostly it was last being on carvers in the midwest, and being out of condition. I really liked the ski but I wanted to fatten the tip to get a tighter radius. Anyhow, on another day, I rented a couple of skis to see what other fat skis could do. A Goode 95 (174cm length) and the Fisher Atua (186cm length, 96 waist). The light Goode turned very easily, but I could tell it felt shorter, and not as strong as the 8800. The Atua was very nice. Useful flex, easy turning and workable. What I really noticed was the extra length. The length help smooth things out in crud.

On the last day there, Alta had the best snow and I was on the 8800s. Everything clicked. A combination of abundant light snow, better technique, and conditioning, and I had a great time with no problems. All 3 skis would have worked that day, but the 8800 have me deeper in the powder, which is good. For me, the ideal powder skis would be a slightly longer 8800 (182cm) with a Radius around 22). But really, it doesn't matter as much as the snow. Great conditons lead to great skiing regardless of the ski.
post #39 of 48
Thread Starter 
Bs"D

175lbs - 178cm.
post #40 of 48
I ended up buying a pair of 8800's in a 188.

Good ski. At the end of the season, i've skied them on everything from hard icy crust in north carolina to 16" of fresh powder at Heavenly Valley in late March.

A little sluggish compared to mantra though
post #41 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by srharv
I ended up buying a pair of 8800's in a 188.
A little sluggish compared to mantra though
So why did you go with the 8800?
I assume you mean that despite the last comment (presumably on the groomed) you still prefer them overall to the Mantra as I do.
If you meant in the powder, I found them more sluggish than the 8800.
post #42 of 48
Main reason is that I could no longer find a new pair of 184 Mantras and the 188 8800's were selling at half price.

Frankly, I preferred the Mantras. I loved those skis from minute one. Groomed, bumps, powder, crud, etc. They just felt right for my style of skiing.

In a similar way, I really liked the 8000 legend last year for various conditions.

However, I've been a little slow to warm up to the 8800. Not exactly sure why. I guess they don't shine in a given area but are a very good all-around ski.

Also, perhaps I prefer a shorter inherent turn radius.
post #43 of 48
Thread Starter 
Bs"D
I see, but it seems a shame that you have to be on a ski that you know you like less just because of price.
Better fortune next time.
post #44 of 48
I guess I knew I'd want something new / different in the near future anyway!

More and more, as someone who travels a significant distance to ski, I'm tempted to stop buying skis and just demo exclusively on my western trips. Its hard to get my moneys' worth on any ski purchase and I enjoy trying the many different choices available (and hate dragging skis thru the airports).

Don't get me wrong, I like the 8800 and don't regret the purchase (especially at the reduced price).
post #45 of 48
Something to consider in your choice between the Head iM 88, Mantra and the 8800 is the PM Bro 179 or 188. I've skied all of them with the exception of the 8800. The Bro does everything in soft snow, crud and true powder better than the Mantra or the Head which I skied in respectively in 184 and 186 for five days in early January at Snowbird. The Bro also skies bumps reasonably well for a ski that is 98.5 under foot. On the steeps even when hard or icy, it has exceptional gripe, but still can be drifted at will and then engage an edge without hooking. In comparison I found the Mantra also very good in powder and crude, but not nearly as good in bumps or at really high speeds as the Bro. The Head was probably the best on groomers if you are used to a ski with lots of sidecut, but I found it stiff in bumps and not nearly as good as either the Mantra or the Bro in powder. Another added plus for the Bro is the exceptionally light weight. It feels like a feather compared to the Head or the Mantra, but this doesn't affect its high speed performance or ability to bust through crude. Only downside is the limited availability of the Bro, but that is likely to change now that they have their own press.
post #46 of 48

bro 179

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarmmit
Something to consider in your choice between the Head iM 88, Mantra and the 8800 is the PM Bro 179 or 188. I've skied all of them with the exception of the 8800. The Bro does everything in soft snow, crud and true powder better than the Mantra or the Head which I skied in respectively in 184 and 186 for five days in early January at Snowbird. The Bro also skies bumps reasonably well for a ski that is 98.5 under foot. On the steeps even when hard or icy, it has exceptional gripe, but still can be drifted at will and then engage an edge without hooking. In comparison I found the Mantra also very good in powder and crude, but not nearly as good in bumps or at really high speeds as the Bro. The Head was probably the best on groomers if you are used to a ski with lots of sidecut, but I found it stiff in bumps and not nearly as good as either the Mantra or the Bro in powder. Another added plus for the Bro is the exceptionally light weight. It feels like a feather compared to the Head or the Mantra, but this doesn't affect its high speed performance or ability to bust through crude. Only downside is the limited availability of the Bro, but that is likely to change now that they have their own press.
Did you ski the stiff 179 Bro or the soft?
post #47 of 48
I skied the stiff. I didn't ski it at the time I demoed the Mantra and the 88 at Snowbird in January. I ordered a pair in early March after reading about them and had them sent to Switzerland where I skied them for eight days in every kind of snow conditions and terrain imaginable. Never once did I feel like I had too little or too much ski. Except for being not able to carve tight arcs on groomed , the ski did everything I asked of it. One thing I didn't mention is the smooth ride over boilerplate due to the two layers of rubber. Also, since they don't have any metal in them you don't have to worry about bending them when you are obliged to get through tight, icy bumps.

I'm 5'11" and 185.
post #48 of 48
Threads like this make happy because I realize I'm not the most overanalytical person in the world. When I'm getting fresh tracks and then I find myself on a groomer, I'm thinking "wow, that was a great run; I can't wait to find more", and not "gee, that was good, but I wish these skis carved on these groomers better."

Everything I've heard about the 8800 is it's a great ski when there's some fresh to be found, but not everywhere. A ski that will make some good gs turns on hardpack.

One ski worth considering is the B3. I WOULDN'T consider it if the ski is going to see a decent amount of cut-up and crud. Otherwise it floats great and it's really easy to get on edge. It doesn't stick like glue to hardpack at 40 mph, but if you want to carve at slower speeds, it's a wider ski that will allow you to do that.

Also, if you're only going to use the skis a few times a year on knee-deep or better, I'd go for something wider. Atomic Sugar Daddy might be a good choice.

...and yeah, I agree with others, wondering how a ski with the sidecut of the Supershape is going to allow you to a) get purchased on a chalky 40 degree chute and b) make turns without carving straight into a rock wall.
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