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Less side cut please!

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
I've come to realize that most skis have too much side cut for my tastes.
Slalom style side cuts are becoming more and more common on all types of skis even so called "powder skis". I'd rather muscle a few short turns than fight my skis all day in powder, bumps and long turns. In fact give me gs side cuts on all my skis but vary the flex and I'll have a bitchin quiver.
Nothin worse than fighting a turny ski all day.
post #2 of 42

Didn't We Play This Game Already?

Here: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=33958

Then Again Here: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=34490

There are skis out there with minimal side cut from GS skis to freeride skis. In reality though, you don't have to "fight" a turny ski. If you are fighting it you aren't using it properly... but I think I said that already in two previous threads, so I will leave you to your new wisdom inspiring thread.

Later

GREG

EDIT: This type of thread should really be posted in the gear section too (I suspect someone will move it). Putting it in that section in the first place will save our moderators a little bit of hassle.
post #3 of 42
Thread Starter 
Heluva, I disagree with everything you said including the threads you refered me to. Police another thread please.
post #4 of 42

Okeydoke. Want my

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
In fact give me gs side cuts on all my skis but vary the flex and I'll have a bitchin quiver.
p30RS 183cms w. Marker M1 demo turntable heel and I'll even beat Heluvaskier's low price?

Quote:
vary the flex
Fels available also.
post #5 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
There are skis out there with minimal side cut from GS skis to freeride skis. In reality though, you don't have to "fight" a turny ski. If you are fighting it you aren't using it properly... but I think I said that already in two previous threads, so I will leave you to your new wisdom inspiring thread.
post #6 of 42
I find it hard to believe that you cant find every type of ski you need in a >20m radius. Radical shapes in fat skis are almost non-existent, save for a few experimental skis like the Line Elizabeth, and almost every ski maker makes a second tier race ski with a radius around 18-20m in addition to their 21m GS skis.

I think you aren't looking hard enough.
post #7 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
I've come to realize that most skis have too much side cut for my tastes.
Slalom style side cuts are becoming more and more common on all types of skis even so called "powder skis". I'd rather muscle a few short turns than fight my skis all day in powder, bumps and long turns. In fact give me gs side cuts on all my skis but vary the flex and I'll have a bitchin quiver.
Nothin worse than fighting a turny ski all day.

What 'slalom cut powder ski' are you referring to?
post #8 of 42

take a look....

sf,

flip those new allstars upside down and tell me what you see? I think you do like the new ski's...now look on the top - 14.4 turning radius....

pretty radical huh? Tip em and ride.... I'm not fighting those babies, I'm lovin em:

I want some Mantras too

It's a wild new world out there on the hill, glad I discovered it!
post #9 of 42
Thread Starter 
Love my allstars, love my 724 pro's I just think I can do a little more with less side cut sometimes. Allstars not slalom side cut, 724 pros far from as well. Allstars best ski I've ever been on! But for powder, crud and bumps I like a tad less side cut than most skis out there these days.
If I had only one variable it would be flex not side cut.
post #10 of 42
Thread Starter 
Shen, there are plenty, too many to mention. See the metron line for starters.
post #11 of 42
Thread Starter 
By the way, I'm not talking about my Allstars which are close to the perfect ski if not perfect. Skied em in a little pow and crud and bumps performed very well in all. I prefer my 724 pro for those types of conditions however.
post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Heluva, I disagree with everything you said including the threads you refered me to.
I didn't ask you to agree with me. I simply stated the truth. But, as many other have mentioned; there are a lot of skis out there that are not in the "turny" category. You will ge no arguements from me on the importance of flex, but often that importance only holds true when it is combined with the proper sidecut. Two great examples of this are the 2005 Rossignol 9X WC and the Elan SLX Fusion. Looking at the Rossi, you would guess that the ski won't turn at all based on sidecut. When you flex the ski, you realize it is a noodle. Most any reasonably skilled (carving) skier can ski a 185 9X into tight slalom turns. The SLX Fusion is also a deceiving ski due to its flex. They are STIFF. Interestingly enough, they have an enourmous sidecut, which when put on edge helps the skier to bend the ski very easily. They end up having impressive rebound and edgehold for a retail slalom ski because of it.

Most powder/freeride skis are still turning well over 18-20m as long as you go with the "real" skis like the Mantra etc. If you look at skis like the AC4, Hot Rods, Metrons, and MagFires - then yes, they do have a lot of cut to them... but they are not unmanagable in all but the most extreme conditions. In longer lengths they actually ski quite well (I demoed a Rossi Z9 in a 176 this past weekend to test the theory). For fast, big mountain skiing - those skis are not a wise choice, as that isn't what they were built for.

Basically what the "extreme" shape will do for a skier, is bring carving to a skier who may not have been able to experience it. Most skis are turning between 14m and 18m, which is a pretty useful range unless you are trying to make really huge turns. I have skis that range in sidecut from 24m down to 11.5m... guess what range the most versitile ones fall into? You guessed it - the 14m to 16m range. The recent threads talking about "shape" in skis as a detriment, or wanting less shaply skis is a direct result of technique that is used by most skiers these days. Now that shaped ski technology has taken over, companies are building skis that more than ever, demand modern skiing technique. Those who have never really adapted are the skiers who are now finding a 16m or 14m turning radius cumbersome. I suspect that average radius size will settle around 14 to 18 meters over the next few seasons, mainly because it is a quite useful turn shape. Of course there will always be skis on both ends of the spectrum, and if you are looking for either "extreme" those selections are certainly available.

Later

GREG
post #13 of 42
BTW ski=free, what length are your 724 Pro's? Going too short is a recipe for dissatisfaction.
post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Shen, there are plenty, too many to mention. See the metron line for starters.
You may want to re-evaluate your definition of a powder ski.
post #15 of 42
Thread Starter 
I just feel trying to cram everything into one ski is happening more and more. Skis today are amazing, better every year. But for me, I have finally figured out that I enjoy skis better if they aren't to "turny". Especially for powder and bumps. Now I've been around here long enough to know I'm going to get all sorts of reasons for "turny".
post #16 of 42
Thread Starter 

Let me ask then,

Do you find it difficult to ski bumps with 2 foot tecnique using skis with a radical side cut? I do.
post #17 of 42
I live in tight woods so I dont think my skis turn quick enough and I am on Pocket Rockets. I am thinking of picking up a pair of these bad boys.....

http://www.skiphantom.com/main.html
post #18 of 42
Thread Starter 
Cool looking. Very huge!
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Do you find it difficult to ski bumps with 2 foot tecnique using skis with a radical side cut?
No, not particularly. The easiest bump skis I ever had were Rossignol T-Power Viper S (103-65-93, 160cm, 14m radius - I think). Typically I ski bumps on previous years slalom skis after they have been retired from racing, but I also ski them on my fats or my Xscreams as well.

Later

GREG
post #20 of 42
>>> what length are your 724 Pro's? Going too short is a recipe for dissatisfaction.<<<

Helluva, I found this out this weekend skiing with a bunch of epicskiers. We were in Pa and the trails had some steeper stuff. I brought my regular skis, Atomic 11-20 in 170cm, (I had Atomic 9-26 in 200 cm before ,they don't make them this long anymore) but the 170cm are a good match for me now.

I also brought Atomic SL-11 150cm skis which I bought off the internet and decided to ski them. I totally overpowered them with my weight of 250# and 6 ft height. They initiated great but after the fall line, even on a high edge they chattered sideways for a little before the edge stabilised.

I tried to browbeat them and manhandle them but no dice. On blue runs they are a lot of fun, engaging and tracking great, but are really turny.

Just wanted to back yo up on going too short.

.........Ott
post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Do you find it difficult to ski bumps with 2 foot tecnique using skis with a radical side cut? I do.
I prefer a slalom cut in the bumps...but that is just me...
I think you may be heading in the right direction with the 'flex' topic you mentioned. A large cut with a stiff(race) ski is not the best option for bumps...Yet, one may be happy with the same sidecut and a different flex pattern.
You might want to give some softer flexing skis a try......

But before you do that..(i think I read you had the Beast 12's...if so) put them on the soft...the more ankle action you get in the bumps the better...

Alfonse...geez..those things look snowboards for each foot!!
post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
Do you find it difficult to ski bumps with 2 foot tecnique using skis with a radical side cut? I do.
No, not at all.

I can ski bumps on my 724Pro's 177cm with 19m sidecut or my WC SC's 160cm with 10m sidecut. If I was heading out to ski mostly bumps on a given day and these two were my only choices, I'd pickup the WC SC's
post #23 of 42
I agree. If you want to make turns larger than the average GS racer, you have to get a super fat ski. If you want to carve 40 m turns on hardpack you're out of luck.

I guess you can always pick up an old pair of SG or DH boards for Cheap.
post #24 of 42
Thread Starter 
I love my 724 pros in bumps! They are not very turny slalom type skis. they are wider skis you can skid a little.
post #25 of 42
Thread Starter 
My whole point is I dislike the twitchy feeling I feel when the side cut gets too aggressive.My favorite skis are ax3,724pro and allstars.None I would decribe as very aggresive side cut or overly turny.
post #26 of 42
I have no problem with the sidecut of the Metrons in the bumps, the stiffness is the only thing that gets ski thrown around is the stiffness.
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski=free
I've come to realize that most skis have too much side cut for my tastes.
Slalom style side cuts are becoming more and more common on all types of skis even so called "powder skis". I'd rather muscle a few short turns than fight my skis all day in powder, bumps and long turns. In fact give me gs side cuts on all my skis but vary the flex and I'll have a bitchin quiver.
Nothin worse than fighting a turny ski all day.
Well, thanks for sharing. Every now and then I need to hear that someone out there needs "less side cut". Actually, I can't imagine how I lived so long without someone pointing out that their life was incomplete due to excessive side cut. As some of you know, the side cut issue is the bane of my existence, too much one-year, too little the next. What's a person to do?

I certainly hope the auto mfrs. don't get this memo. Could you imagine cars with excessive side cut? One flick of the wheel and, boom you go from a simple lane change to a high-speed drift to 180. I always grab the car as far back with my left had, you know kind of like those cool snowboarder dudes do. Boy, that's new school.

Well, again, thanks for sharing. I don't know what I would have done if you hadn’t shared that with us. By the by, what is "side cut" anyway?

Mark
post #28 of 42
Thread Starter 
Thanks, just the same we are all better off by you sharing your opinion thanks for taking the time out of you life to comment on my thread. I'm sure you have a lot better things to do with your life but decided to better ours by your writting grace.It is very much appreciated.
post #29 of 42
Thread Starter 
Maddog, good luck with that looking for tantric students thing. Bet you get a lot of takers.
post #30 of 42
Thread Starter 
Good one.
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