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Tuning Stones and Bevel Guides

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Since there have been alot of posts for tuning I want to post some of my questions.

I currently use a black, blue, and red diamond stone for sharpening the edges. I also have a cheap ceramic and gummi that came in a kit but I barely use those.

I also have a SKS Racing Combi with a tungsten carbide cutter that I use to set the side edge bevel every once in awhile.

I use the diamond stones for basic maintenance without guides but I know that this is a no no even though I am very careful about the angle I hold the files at.

My question is what file guides and tools should I get for a .5-1 degree base and 3 degree side for basic everyday maintenance? The diamond stones are usually Swix or DMT but I blow through them very quickly. I have read some recent post sin which people says the "new" swix stones are better and some say to use expensive ceramic.

Also, what stones do you guys use water with and why?

I don't want to use the race combi everytime because I will take off too much edge material. It makes it razor sharp but not good for everyday maintenance.

Cost is not really a cencern as I like to buy stuff that lasts and does a good job.

I love to tune myself and I think it is important to do a good job because it makes a world of difference when skiing on ice and early season manmade.

Thanks for any help
post #2 of 19
As I said in the other post I have just started using the new Moon Flex diamond stones and like them.

Use 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol/water to lub and clean the diamond file.

I like the SVST edge guides because they have a larger surface. Becareful to make sure your clamp is big/long enought the clamp your "8 inch" file to the guide.

You all will like this one: To set the base at 1 degree I have taken some double back tape and stuck it to the diamond stone, then clamped a teflon disk at the proper distance to give the diamond stone a 1 degree angle. You realy need to becareful of removing to much material from the base edge. That's why I don't use a file. I even have a piece of gage stock that is machined at the correct length to measure the distance from the diamond surface to the teflon disk that rides down the edge of the ski.
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the post.

I will probably pickup the SVST edge bevel set and the clamp.

I assume that this is only for the side bevel.

What do you prefer for the base as far as a guide goes?

Your current setup sounds cool but I don't want to chance being to far off using tape and a shim.

The The Final Cut Base Edge Beveling Tool sounds cool but for $75 I only have the choice for one bevel angle. I would guess that the .7 is my best bet since I like the base edge to catch faster than a 1 degree. I have the Atomic factory tune of 1 and 3 but I think the base needs less angle personally.

I know alot of people like to keep the factory angles so maybe I should stay at 1 degree.

Decisions decisions

[ November 17, 2003, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Scalce ]
post #4 of 19
Hey Scalce:

I use Diamond Moonflex diamond files from SVST with their Secret sauce http://www.race-werks.com/product.php?prod_id=1024&cat_id=3&sub_cat_id=10www .race- werks.com.[/url] Here is the link for the diamond files http://www.race-werks.com/product.ph...=144&cat_id=3. also use their Final cut base beveler http://www.race-werks.com/product.ph...&sub_cat_id=9, and side beveler, http://www.race-werks.com/product.ph...3&sub_cat_id=9 and use one of their big utility alligator clamps on it. http://www.race-werks.com/product.ph...d=930&cat_id=3 You can then use files diamonds gummi stones what ever you want with the guide.

Also, shims are available to change the degrees. I have a 3 degree and a 2 degree guide with a 1 degree shim. This way I can do skis at 2 degrees, use both guides at 3 degrees at the same time so I don't have to change tools & use the 1 degree shim on the 3 degree to get 4 degrees for Hard Colorado or Canadian race days if we are traveling. I also use their T2 pro-stone kit http://www.race-werks.com/product.ph...sub_cat_id=10. You also should be using a sidewall planer to remove the sidewall just above the edge, so you can get a clean 3 degree side edge without your file or stone hitting the sidewall.

The Moonflex diamond files are extremely durable and have a much roughr face than the DMT's whicjh I don't care for either. The final cut base beveler is by far the best I have seen & IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO OVER BEVEL YOUR BASE EDGE. It has Delrinn glides and is made of hard anodized precision machined aluminum. Very expensive, but worth it & is available in .5,.7 1,1.5 & 2 degrees. I mostly use the T@ ceramics on speed skis & sometimes GS skis.

Anyway, hope this helps. Have fun buying some new toys!

Over & out!

A-man

[ November 17, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #5 of 19
I have a set of Moonflex diamond files I use with SVST secret sauce - they really do turn out a superior job to the DMT files. I also use a standard set of edge bevelers and I use a SVST Final Cut base edge tool for my base edges.
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
How many Diamond stones do you guys use? The 5 stone progression seems alittle much for non-racers.

I would think coarse, medium, and fine would be OK for me.

So what degrees do you guys use for the base?

Also, what sidewall planer do you guys use?

Thanks for all the info BTW

Looks like a good $300 easy

[img]smile.gif[/img]
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Scalce:
How many Diamond stones do you guys use? The 5 stone progression seems alittle much for non-racers.

I would think coarse, medium, and fine would be OK for me.

So what degrees do you guys use for the base?

Also, what sidewall planer do you guys use?

Thanks for all the info BTW

Looks like a good $300 easy

[img]smile.gif[/img]
You'd be fine with the 3 stones. My sidewall planer has no markings on it, I'll see if I can figure out whose it is. We use a 1 degree base bevel on all of our Atomic skis. They all come from the factory 1 base 3 side edge.
post #8 of 19
I have a 200 and 600 grit Moon Flex. Have not used the 600 yet.

1 base
2 edge on Volkl's
3 edge on Atomic's
In Tognar is a list of the factory settings.

I use a Toko sidwall planner

Sercet sauce is 50/50 denatured alcohol/water. I got that from the Moon Flex manufactures web site.
post #9 of 19
Maybe 3 diamond "stones". 100 or 200 for nicks 400 or 600 for general almost finished and 1000 (Swix) or 1500 (Maplus) for final work. As said, always use wet. Water, snow, SVST Secret sauce or Artech sharpening solution(the most viscous). Using dry loads any stone (diamond, ceramic, natural) with the material you are trying to hone and in the case of diamonds, puts more stress on the pieces of diamond, breaking them off the face of the stone sooner. In addition to Smithby's advice, use an old toothbrush for cleaning the diamonds. For Ceramics use powdered kitchen cleanser and a brass brush. While money may not be an object, there is a range of prices on the same item. www.race-werks.com
www.artechski.com
www.Tognar.com
www.the- raceplace.com

Race Place has a nice set of Oval brushes.
Artech is East Coast. They have the best sharpening solution.
Tognar has the best info in the catalog for tuning tips.
Race Werks is? SVST? SVST has the nicest fixed angle side edge
beveler. Get the 1/2 degree shim, also.
While the SVST base tool is the nicest and maybe dummyproof; the Race Place "Base Beast" is alot cheaper and works fine. Yes, you have to make sure the file doesn't get into the base. A combo of .5 and .75 or .75 and 1 degree takes care of many base bevels. The shallower for file and then the next up for stones.
Also check out www.fktools-us.com for that companies full range.
post #10 of 19
Cool post. Lots of info
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Well I just blew like over $300 but I have a whole bunch of toys coming here on Thursday.

If anyone is in the Boston area and wants to come tune in my kitchen feel free.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

My cat does like to mess with all the tools though.
post #12 of 19
By John J.
Quote:
...the Race Place "Base Beast" is alot cheaper and works fine. Yes, you have to make sure the file doesn't get into the base. A combo of .5 and .75 or .75 and 1 degree takes care of many base bevels. The shallower for file and then the next up for stones.
I started doing all my own tuning last season. The Race Place tools are very user friendly. www.the-raceplace.com is a family owned business located in Bend, Oregon near Mt. Bachelor. However, you can also find them each summer at Mt. Hood for the summer race camp season. The owner, Scott Holmer designed both the base and side edge guides. You can also call him if you have questions.
post #13 of 19
You guys have way way way way way too much money. $300 on tuning equipment??? $40 diamond stone??? : I was worried about spending $250 on new boots, and am still contimplating getting two $8 diamond stones.

Consider yourselves lucky that you have enough $ to spend on all that great stuff.

Ive yet to pony up the dough for $60 vices and ive been racing for 4 years! :

hehehe
post #14 of 19
Thread Starter 
I figure that I save alot of money by not going out drinking every week so it equals out to three nights of boozing.

So technically I am saving money.

post #15 of 19
Take it easy on the base edge or you'll find that you're running edge high. I generally do most of my daily maintenance on the side edges unless I ding the edges on a rock. I may polish the base edges, but only if I'm feeling particularly anal about the tune. Usually the side edge is more than enough to get a sharp edge back.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by PMZ:
You guys have way way way way way too much money. $300 on tuning equipment??? $40 diamond stone??? : I was worried about spending $250 on new boots, and am still contimplating getting two $8 diamond stones.

Consider yourselves lucky that you have enough $ to spend on all that great stuff.

Ive yet to pony up the dough for $60 vices and ive been racing for 4 years! :

hehehe
With 2 kids racing and 18 pair of skis skis, I am saving money by buying my own tuning gear. You should be praising us for doing our part for the economy! There is no such thing as luck. Luck is when opportunity meets preparedness!

Over & out!
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Alaska Mike:
Take it easy on the base edge or you'll find that you're running edge high. I generally do most of my daily maintenance on the side edges unless I ding the edges on a rock. I may polish the base edges, but only if I'm feeling particularly anal about the tune. Usually the side edge is more than enough to get a sharp edge back.
Hi A. Mike, Sorry to be a stickler here but I think if you take too much base edge off your skis you end up base high and over beveled, not edge high. Did I misunderstand something!

[ November 17, 2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #18 of 19
You're right. I was in a hurry and mis-typed. Base high it is.
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Well I got all of my toys today.

That was fast.

There are no instructions but I think it is pretty self explanatory how to use the tools.
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