or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

knee hip shoulder alignment

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Face down the hill or assume the neuteral postion?

your thoughts?
post #2 of 12
SirMack,

Borrowing from the AASI forum? Any jokes about riders and the neutered position?

It depends on your stance. More aggresive stance angles (e.g. >35 degrees) can efficiently stand squarer to the direction of travel. Less aggressive stances need to stand more with the shoulders lined up with the direction of travel or perpendicular to the stance of the front foot for the most efficient riding.
post #3 of 12
I would think you'd want to keep the knees, hips, shoulders aligned. Whether they are facing the direction of travel or not is more based on stance angles. If you try to face the direction of travel with 10 degrees of forward stance or duck footed, you're just torquing your body up. At best, it's just wasted effort. At worst, you'll untwist at the wrong time and something bad will happen.
post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMack
Face down the hill or assume the neuteral postion?

your thoughts?
When I ride my alpine whip it's knees , hips, shoulders , squared to the boards nose. Technically this is considerd a neutral position in alpine land.

Regular set up w / softies , I ride neutral. sometimes however...during a high speed GS carve will have a tendencey to rotate the knee, hips , shoulders , slightly towards the boards nose / downhill. BUT to no avail the attempts to smoothly blend a turn together in variable conditions is tough. Not to mention I find myself starting the turn from the top down rather the feet up.

Jonah D.
post #5 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMack
Face down the hill or assume the neuteral postion?

your thoughts?
I would say it's different depending on whether you are doing short turns or long turns. How much you face down hill in your short turns then depends on your stance angles.
post #6 of 12

alpino neutrino

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah D.
When I ride my alpine whip it's knees , hips, shoulders , squared to the boards nose. Technically this is considerd a neutral position in alpine land.
While I don't live in alpine land, I do visit frequently. My understanding is that neutral there is the same as it is with soft boots and low stance angles: hips and shoulders are aligned with the feet--not to the nose of the board. This reduces twisting of the upper and lower body segments, allowing a rider the greatest range of movement to create each aspect of board performance.



Most alpine coaches I know encourage this with their riders, rather than the 'face the nose' approach.
post #7 of 12
Face the nose - my personal bent.

Skiers did us a great service by helping us come up with snowboard technique back in the day. We did ourselves a great disservice by keeping the "face the nose" as long as we did. Let it die. Twist your body up no more!

BTW - when people say that it is ok when you are doing short radius down the fall line - think about when your toeside is coming across the hill (heels pointed down the hill) and your body is facing down the hill. Even a yoga instructor would have a hard time making that into an efficient move. Now consider if you point your board downhill and line up feet knees, hips shoulders. Now when you start your short radius turns down the fall line, the most your body will twist up is 90 degrees.

Hardboots do make it possible, but it is still not the most efficient and effective way to ride them either.
post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah D.
When I ride my alpine whip it's knees , hips, shoulders , squared to the boards nose. Technically this is considerd a neutral position in alpine land.
This is not neutral in alpine land - it is old school. If your body is twisted, it is not neutral. Want proof? Hop on a long rail 50/50 on your alpine setup facing the nose. You will find out quickly that you were not neutral.

Jonah, check out the MAC Tracks link and come join us if you are available. I have seen you on the AASI site, but I did not know you rode plates.
post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
SirMack,

Borrowing from the AASI forum? Any jokes about riders and the neutered position?
hardly borrowing...I started the thread on BOL 2 years ago...

really just wanted to something content based on top of the page as opposed to the ski bashing thread.


anyway - My take echoes both lowell and phil...free your upper body and increase Range of motion...much more effective...
post #10 of 12

downhill or neutral

As far as a starting point or "re-setting" point for riding or performing other manuevers it depends on where the feet are pointed. Consider shoulders and hips perpendicular not to the front foot, but to the split of your angles. We use both feet and legs (hopefully), so why should we key on only the front? Anyway this reference alignment is just that, a reference point, a beginning or end. It's not highly encouraged to hold this arrangement throughout the duration of a turn or manuever (unless done for a specific purpose or style). We flow through this alignment (when riding dynamically or on high level terrain).

I agree that in short turns, steep terrain, bumps, trees etc. that the facing downhill upper body, like a mogul skier, is very effective and useful. In a duck type stance this would have the rider's front arm/shoulder lined up with the fall line (not chest facing downhill). In a more directional stance, the rider's side of the rib cage in between the sternum and front shoulder would face downhill. This doesn't mean that you have to have your front hand/arm/shoulder locked in facing down the hill. It can sway from side to side depending on flexibility levels, but the idea is to minimize the upper body movement as much as possible. The chest would only face the nose of the board in this example for a very short period of time throughout the turns.

Even when riding my racing rig, I don't have the chest pointed at the nose, except for maybe a few moments through the finish of a heel side turn. I know that I use more upper body rotary movements to enhance what my lower body's doing on the hard boot set-up. so through out the control phase of a heel sider, I move from facing somewhere near the ref. alignment toward the nose. I enhance toe turns in the same style, upper body rotating "into" the turn. So I basically end up with chest moving toward facing the tail when finishing toe turns. I don't think I ever get the chest pointing more than just slightly toward the tail and it's only for a few moments, then back the other way.

I notice a lot of people who ride with the chest toward the nose of the board bring their imaginary girlfriend along for the ride also.
post #11 of 12

twisted up?

[quote=philsthrills]BTW - when people say that it is ok when you are doing short radius down the fall line - think about when your toeside is coming across the hill (heels pointed down the hill) and your body is facing down the hill. Even a yoga instructor would have a hard time making that into an efficient move. Now consider if you point your board downhill and line up feet knees, hips shoulders. Now when you start your short radius turns down the fall line, the most your body will twist up is 90 degrees.
quote]

I see some people try to do this and their toe side finish looks uncomfortable at best, and then they keep their chest pointed straight down the hill throughout the rest of their heel turn and "stall" out at the end of their heel turn. Lots of twist to help in going from toe to heel, but no rebound to get off the heel edge. These types of riders in general are real good at pushing or kicking their back foot around, kind of like a windshield wiper. They don't really every finish their toe side turn either, unless they are gumby. So speed control is challenging for them on steeper, bumpier terrain also.
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibster
I see some people try to do this and their toe side finish looks uncomfortable at best, and then they keep their chest pointed straight down the hill throughout the rest of their heel turn and "stall" out at the end of their heel turn. Lots of twist to help in going from toe to heel, but no rebound to get off the heel edge. These types of riders in general are real good at pushing or kicking their back foot around, kind of like a windshield wiper. They don't really every finish their toe side turn either, unless they are gumby. So speed control is challenging for them on steeper, bumpier terrain also.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: