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Help for my dog in SLC - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex
skier_j, I've no idea.

DC is obviously exempt from any of it : : much like they seem to be exempt from wastewater controls.

Zoola is apparently a Sole Source Aquifer. Maybe those folks could say?
I don't know. I know (that is, I've been told by Forest Service personnel) that the only dog restrictions in our primary watershed (Rattlesnake Creek) have to do with elk winter habitat and dog presence increasing the likelihood of interaction with mountain cats and bears.
post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
so SLC drinks untreated water pulled from the surface waters runoff?
What do you want to bet political power is with the well water folks?
post #33 of 59
from the source of the ban:
http://www.slcgov.com/Utilities/wate...g_animals.html

1)Why no dogs in the Protected Watershed?

There are several reasons for animal restrictions in the Protected Watershed. Dogs and other domestic animals commune with humans and can transmit human virus and disease. Dogs don't use restrooms. The Wasatch National Forest receives millions of visitors annually. Lots of dogs would mean lots of dog waste. As an example, Mill Creek Canyon is not currently used as a drinking water source, and dogs are allowed. In the first few weeks after the Forest Service installed dog waste containers in Mill Creek, over one ton (2,000 pounds) of dog waste was hauled from the canyon. This does not include the waste that ended up on the ground rather than the bins. That is a lot of dog waste that does not need to be removed from your drinking water supply.As another example, Salt Lake City has been monitoring fecal coliform and other indicators of human and animal waste in the streams along the Wasatch Front for decades. The streams which have not been regulated as protected watershed areas and allow dogs have shown a noticeable increase in fecal pollution.

2)Wildlife. Bears may do it in the woods, but we should know better!

A healthy forest also has a healthy wildlife population. This was their home before it was our water supply. While we cannot control how wildlife behaves, we can control what we do and our impacts upon water quality. It is important to note that too much wildlife can exceed the capacity of the forest by overgrazing and destruction of watering holes. In addition to the impact to vegetation and water quality, it can lead to an unhealthy wildlife population. Hunting in the watershed provides some level of wildlife pollution control to keep game species in check from overpopulation.
post #34 of 59
Quote:
Hunting in the watershed provides some level of wildlife pollution control to keep game species in check from overpopulation.
it's one thing to justify hunting based on preference and tradition.

it's entirely another to make up bool-a-shiznit about ecological truths.

deer and other game animal populations do not need humans to hunt them. they got along fine before humans were hunting them. so this makes the city's statement below all the more surprising, as it shows some big contradictions:

Quote:
A healthy forest also has a healthy wildlife population. This was their home before it was our water supply.
city government speaks with two voices.
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex
What do you want to bet political power is with the well water folks?
don't think so. it's got to be something different.
post #36 of 59
For all of those that don't get what the problem is, go take a walk up Millcreek canyon (where dogs are allowed) during the summer. You'll get it.

http://www.saveourcanyons.org/archiv...c/011497a.html

It's not an issue of 1 person's dog, it's cumulative impact...

For those you that get pissed when your neighbors dog poops in your yard, think about leting them poop in your drinking water....

There is a sanitary sewer that takes most of the wastewater out of the canyon(s)

There is also a ban on swimming/wading (Unless you have on waders) in Big and Little Cottonwood creeks for the same reasons. I think it's a $50 or $100 fine.

And BTW, I'm a water quality scientist for the state of UT....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomictoms
Anyone have any ideas what I could do for the dog?
Where are you staying?

L
post #37 of 59
First of all, Millcreek isn't that bad at all, considering IT'S THE ONLY PLACE IN SLC where you can actually take your dog for any hike off-leash (on specific days and trails, etc). They make it as complicated as possible to try and deter it anyway. You crowd an entire city's worth of dogs into one little canyon and what do you think is going to happen?


I've been to community meetings around here on attempting to open up a second real off-leash dog area and it is absolutely unbelieveable. The anti-dog people included a little old woman crying because some horrible person let a dog pee on her flowers from the sidewalk in front of her house one time. And people who think that letting dogs run off leash in a specific area would lead to an increase in teenagers drinking and having sex in the woods and a higher incidence of rape. And others who said "All dogs should stay tied up in the owners yard or in a kennel at all times. That's what responsible people do." Oh, excellent... It was mind-boggling.


What's even crazier, is that they built some "off leash dog parks" in the valley here and there. Sounds nice but they're really like 1/2 acre little fenced in boxes with wood chips and nothing much else where you can throw a ball for your dog. (I might as well stay in my yard...) The kicker was seeing on the news that the one in... West Jordan was it? ...they want to shut down part time due to budget cutbacks. Budget? It's a fenced in little box! Where is the operational expense with that?
post #38 of 59
And for the record, being the proud father of two pooches and no kids, I'm not at all anti-dog.....

L
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
For all of those that don't get what the problem is, go take a walk up Millcreek canyon (where dogs are allowed) during the summer. You'll get it.

http://www.saveourcanyons.org/archiv...c/011497a.html

It's not an issue of 1 person's dog, it's cumulative impact...

For those you that get pissed when your neighbors dog poops in your yard, think about leting them poop in your drinking water....

There is a sanitary sewer that takes most of the wastewater out of the canyon(s)

There is also a ban on swimming/wading (Unless you have on waders) in Big and Little Cottonwood creeks for the same reasons. I think it's a $50 or $100 fine.

And BTW, I'm a water quality scientist for the state of UT....



Where are you staying?

L
Sorry Lonnie; dogs poop in everyones drinking water everywhere. Granted at my house that poop doesn't stand much chance of getting through the natural filtering of a 400+ foot well. Waste water and sewage treatment is a fact of municipal life and even communities that have deep well water sources (sort of like mine) filter for anything that the dogs might add to the mix.

Again, just tell the traveling folks that no dogs are allowed in the lots---just because.

Now, regarding your profession, I am quite sure there will be some impact---no argument there whatsoever. I question if it is a compelling reason. I know it is the norm rather than the exception to restrict access to watersheds and water supplies. And , I'll admit that even if I don't think those restrictions actually help the end quality of the water, I do feel better knowing that.

If you were to say the added costs were significant, I'd have no rebuttal and that could be reason enough to continue restrictions---at least until a more cost effective filtering scheme could be put in place---(if there is one).
post #40 of 59
Maybe if people would pick up after their dogs things wouldn't be so bad. In our neighborhood we had someone's dog doing their business in the middle of the road. Cars would drive over it. Kids on bikes would ride over it. Kids would step in it and track into their houses. Pretty disgusting to walk out in front of your driveway and find dog crap every where. One of the neighborhood moms wrote a letter and put it in everyones mail boxes. The was the last of the mysterious dog crap.
I wonder what goes through a dog owners mind that lets their dog crap on someone's lawn and walks off. Back in the good old days my dad would hall out the BB gun and shoot the neighbors dog in the butt when ever they would come over and take a dump on our lawn. (This was ironically in Utah.) I remember neighbors threating bodily harm for dog owners who just let their dogs run loose through out the neighborhoods, crapping and pissing on other people's lawns. (They prefered a .22 to a BB gun.) In any event there is a lot of nasty bacteria in dog fecal matter and dog owners need to take responsibility for their dogs feces.
post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
And for the record, being the proud father of two pooches and no kids, I'm not at all anti-dog.....

L

I'm sure it does make a water quality difference. I guess I just question why it can't be treated. Or why there can't be some sort of compromise made. With the funky rules in Millcreek, why not allow dogs on certain days, or hell, even sell a limited number of daily permits for dogs in watershed areas? (You sell permits, you make money to pay for people to enforce the rules). Instead everything gets shoved into Millcreek, which is a madhouse of people doing every sport and activity you can imagine (including hunting) and then all the people who actually want to get exercise themselves with their dogs and it's no wonder there are so many conflicts there. It's not really a fun place to do much of anything since it's so crowded most of the time.
post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j
Sorry Lonnie; dogs poop in everyones drinking water everywhere. Granted at my house that poop doesn't stand much chance of getting through the natural filtering of a 400+ foot well. Waste water and sewage treatment is a fact of municipal life and even communities that have deep well water sources (sort of like mine) filter for anything that the dogs might add to the mix.
Yes, but some of us are trying to keep it from being there. ever heard of Fecal coliform or E. Coli TMDL's. If you have, you might also know what pooper scooper laws are.

I guess my point is why must we except the lazyness of some dog owners? We shouldn't.

EDIT: Alta girl, I'm in agreement that there needs to be somewhere else for local dog owners to enjoy their pooches, I'm just not sure where it is. I know that homeland security is much more worried about "really bad" stuff as opposed to dog poop. With that being said, "source protection" is the #1 topic in the drinking water community right now. (I personally deal with the other end of the pipe....)

L
post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadman
Maybe if people would pick up after their dogs things wouldn't be so bad...
I totally hear you. We have a good sized local organization here that tries very hard to organize picking up after irresponsible owners, adding bag stands and signs to trailheads, park entrances, offer education, etc. What else can you do?
post #44 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
...I'm in agreement that there needs to be somewhere else for local dog owners to enjoy their pooches, I'm just not sure where it is.
There is. It's called Park City. Where owning a dog and letting them roam off leash (on main street, even) is a birthright.

Powdr
post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Yes, but some of us are trying to keep it from being there. ever heard of Fecal coliform or E. Coli TMDL's. If you have, you might also know what pooper scooper laws are.

I guess my point is why must we except the lazyness of some dog owners? We shouldn't.

EDIT: Alta girl, I'm in agreement that there needs to be somewhere else for local dog owners to enjoy their pooches, I'm just not sure where it is. I know that homeland security is much more worried about "really bad" stuff as opposed to dog poop. With that being said, "source protection" is the #1 topic in the drinking water community right now. (I personally deal with the other end of the pipe....)

L
Picking up after your animal on a city street is one thing--- roaming around in a wilderness area is quite another matter. And poop on my lawn draws my ire as well.

Sure it is responsible to cart out the poops---if they are in the normal path of people and other animals using the area. Whats the buffer tho?? 15 feet from the path?? 200 yards?? Everwhere?

And, Yes I know what those bacteria are---or at least what they can do to you. I also know what Giardia is and what that can do to you. Lived once with a contaminated water supply due to "beaver fever". I don't recall a ban on beavers in the watershed. The water treatment problem was fixed, and aside from a few folks (relatively speaking) that took awhile to get rid of the organism, all was back to normal in a fairly short time.

Eveyone is dancing around the filtering issues tho. If we agree that treatment and filtering won't go away even if we were successful in banishing all the pooches, then is it so much more costly to filter because of doggie dodo that they beasts must be kept away from the source?

I don't know the answer, if it is a resounding yes, then I have no problem with restrictions.

I have no dogs as pets, I just think these sort of restrictions are irrational at best---the way they are presented to the public that is.

Thats all I am saying.

Other end of the pipe eh? Oh MY!!!:
post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr
There is. It's called Park City. Where owning a dog and letting them roam off leash (on main street, even) is a birthright.

Powdr
Yeah, you don't want to know how much gas we burn driving to Park City all the damn time in the summer between mountain biking and the dog. It's ridiculous, and there should be something that is closer than a 45 minute drive.
post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
I totally hear you. We have a good sized local organization here that tries very hard to organize picking up after irresponsible owners, adding bag stands and signs to trailheads, park entrances, offer education, etc. What else can you do?
I guess you could try pooper scooper sting operations to catch people not picking up after their dogs. We are fortunate enough here in WA to not have all the restrictions that the folks in the Wasatch have. Heck, anyone who skis at Crystal will see dogs all over the place including one of the parking lot attendants with his chocolate lab complete with his own orange safety vest.
post #48 of 59
Not to hijack this thread, but we just discovered that the Extended Stay Sandy now allows dogs, so we are consiidering bringing oru sweet greyhound Giselle when we go to ESA. Since the event happens all day, are there any locals who would like to earn a little bit of extra cash giving her a late afternoon, early evening walk?
post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisamarie
Not to hijack this thread, but we just discovered that the Extended Stay Sandy now allows dogs, so we are consiidering bringing oru sweet greyhound Giselle when we go to ESA. Since the event happens all day, are there any locals who would like to earn a little bit of extra cash giving her a late afternoon, early evening walk?
Lisa,

If you find no takers, I can give you the name of a lady that does this for a fee....

Alta Pet Sitters
(801) 273-7387
Ask for Rochelle.

For the SLC locals Rochelle and her crew are great. They gotten me out of several Jams....
post #50 of 59
^ Good resource to have.


Though LM, if they are of the variety that allows you to have pets in the room but not leave them alone while you're out (we've run into that before), DogMode is always an option. Not sure if you saw my link on the first page, but they do "doggie day care". And it's a cool place where your dog has a blast running around with other dogs all day. $20 the first day and $15 for any additional days in the following week. I know a lot of people who take their dog there just because they have fun and come home exhausted.

You have to look, even if just for the cute pictures:

http://dogmode.com/Gallery/gallery.html


You will need verification of current shot records if you use DogMode, FYI.
post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
Yeah, you don't want to know how much gas we burn driving to Park City all the damn time in the summer between mountain biking and the dog. It's ridiculous, and there should be something that is closer than a 45 minute drive.
That's too bad. I take my dog on a 3-mile walk in the forest out my back door pretty much every day. My land drains into Denver's water supply as all of Breckenridge does. Breck also has about the highest dog population per capita on earth. I guess Denver filters...

Steve
post #52 of 59
Thanks Breckview! I've actually spoken to Rochelle. That is definitely an option, but I thought if any of our own locals wanted to do it, I'd give them the option. The Extended Stay lets the dogs stay in the room. but she has too be crated.

Off-topic: we are still looking for someone to stay at our place and watch our cats in Dillon. So far no takers.
post #53 of 59
they allow dogs in Summit county?
post #54 of 59
you are not allowed in Summit County withOUT a dog.
post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_davis
they allow dogs in Summit county?
No. We check at the county line to see how ugly you are. If you don't pass the minimum requirements, we send you to Provo instead
post #56 of 59
If y'all come up here to PC with your dog, bring bags to pick up the droppings, or stay down there in your smog filled valley.

We can even take our dogs to Home Depot.

What is the rule around Weber County?
post #57 of 59
Lisa,

What are the dates?? That isn't too far out of the way for me, I just don't know how much time I can commit, since I'm responsible for walking my own puppies. My work schedule is 7:00am-5:30pm. Most likely I'd be by around 6:00 pm or so, if I can work it out. I might be able to swing a day or 2. Send me a e-mail or pm....

L
post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by okolepuka
If y'all come up here to PC with your dog, bring bags to pick up the droppings, or stay down there in your smog filled valley.

We can even take our dogs to Home Depot.

What is the rule around Weber County?
You can bring your dog to Home Depot here too. Just not hiking.
post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Lisa,

What are the dates?? That isn't too far out of the way for me, I just don't know how much time I can commit, since I'm responsible for walking my own puppies. My work schedule is 7:00am-5:30pm. Most likely I'd be by around 6:00 pm or so, if I can work it out. I might be able to swing a day or 2. Send me a e-mail or pm....

L
Way to go Lonni! Bonni and I walked her the week were in Summitt county and this animal is an absolute joy to walk! Giselle is great on a leash. Poop walks were sometimes as short as 5 minutes---the excersise walks were longer.
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