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Video analysis of an ski-instructor - Page 2

post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
I do see a fair amount of tail push in a number of the turns (even some of the carving turns). I'd encourage you to play with dialing that rotary back a lot.
Or refining it, or progresivelly dialing up the edges a bit more? I think all are workable soulutions.

I looked again and didn't really see the push (only in a few of the bump sequences), or at least didn't think it was much of a problem. SSH can you give a time stamp so I can look again? (I want to make sure we're looking at the same frames.)

L
post #32 of 102
Sure, Lonnie. It was in most of the chapters (I thought), but I noticed it first in chapter 1, and then later in the carved chapter. Let me go watch it again and post back...

...and I agree, "dialing" is a bit obtuse. I was thinking a bit less rotary, a bit more allowing the skis to come around, a bit more refinement on the edge angles.
post #33 of 102
The push is very noticable in the first few turns of the series under the chairlift. Then, he drops into a bit more of a carve, but I think that he's pushing his tails out at the top of the turn, then carving the bottom half. What do you see there?

Similarly, on those big carved turns, he's lifting that (new) inside ski and letting the (new) outside ski drift out. Sometimes, he is pushing that ski out, I think. Thoughts?
post #34 of 102
Rats! Can't view vid clips at the office!
post #35 of 102
Thread Starter 
Lonnie, thanks for taking the time to analyse my skiing and for your very long and informative post .

Yes, the inside ski is maybe one of the major issues I have been addressing these past couple of years. If I look at videos from long ago, lets say middle 90s that inside ski comes off the snow at every turn. Anyway, keeping snow contact is annother thing. I dont really focus that much on keeping snow contact all the time since I focus on balance and terrain ahead. Everything else is pritty much something that just happens. If I find it nesessary I will jump the tails or the entire skis depending on occation. Actually its pritty cool to watch for the jumping motion in my first video clip link in the first post because at the end of the clip I still do the jumping part but my skis dont leave the snow and my body doesent rice up. But the motion is there. Thats what makes me ski like I do. Thats what initiates my turns if I skidd.

Yes, I brake at the waist. It also used to be a much bigger problem than it is now. This is one of the reasons I get caught in the back seat.

Wedge.... yes you pritty much have the same technique. The demo is for showing how easy it is to turn. Many times adult students have problems trusting the skis to turn and this demo is many times the ice-braker.

Thanx
post #36 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread
I enjoyed watching the clips. Very nice skiing. It appears to me that you can ski just about anywhere in any condition. A true level 9. From your short radius turns it appears that you have had some race training. I like that wedge drill.

I think the only thing I may change is the length of your poles. They seemed a bit long in the short radius turns but then in the bumps it was really apparent. I have some long poles as well that I use primarily on the groomers but they are too long for that also. Time to cut 'em down.
Pole lengths, nice observation . I use long poles because at regular skiing it works better for me. In the bumps they are too long but I am on the mission to ski everything with only one pair of poles. BTW, my skis are 165 SL skis so they are deffinetly not optimal for any of the skiing on the videos exept from the wedging and carving offcourse.
post #37 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
Pole lengths, nice observation . I use long poles because at regular skiing it works better for me.
Just curious... what is it about long poles that makes them better for regular skiing for you?
post #38 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmot mb
TDK6, Great Video, clap clap clap. excellent assortment of skiing terrains and clear enough to get the point. I really like how you played at normal speed and then again at a slower speed to allow easier analysis of the movements.

The thing I really notice with good carve skiing is the skier moves his upper body slightly up the hill more so than his hips (hips driving downhill - with the turn, and upper body slightly more uphill orientated than the hips causing increased pressure on the downhill ski).

Also I notice that the skier moves his body that way in the turn until his body is in position to simply touch the pole down. No arm movement or hand movement to MAKE or direct the pole plant. It's seems the body is moved to place the hand and arm into position creating only a drop of the hand to make pole contact.

Is this correct as this seems to me consistent in all good carve skiing I have seen.
Thanks for the compliment on my video . I thaught it would be nice to have the clips in both normal speed and in slowmotion. This way you can see the fluidity and the realtime mess of it. In slowmotion everything looks like we can address it specifically and correct it instantly.

A brief pole plant is probably just something we do now as we are loosing the pole plant entirely. Look at the second chapter how I dont use my poles to the end of the clip.
post #39 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
You are a great skier (but you already know that)

Lonnie definitely gave you great advice.

I would like to tell you one thing. IMO you could bend more at the waist (in the bumps). This would help absorb the terrain better. Again,IMO.
Yes, I knew that .

Hey, common.... Im 6foot2 200+ and 43y with a back problem.....

Im also standing fearly straight up just waiting for that huge mogul to slam my knees into my chest!
post #40 of 102
tdk6, I was really thinking about GS size turns and speed here. The unevenness of the snow makes it really work all the muscles it the body, though!
post #41 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eng_ch
I guess my question is if you are in the back seat at the end of the turn and not the start, is it a gradual thing that your upper body simply isn't moving forward at the same speed as your legs and hence eventually your feet are ahead of you? Or do you actually do something specific once you are past the fall line that changes your stance from CM over your feet to back? And if the former, how do you ensure it doesn't happen? Your arms and hands seem to be nicely forward...
I dont really know.... the thing is that I kind of wait for my leggs to cross underneath and at the same time they kind of go ahead of me. My upper body I try to keep as much in the fall line as possible or to deviate out of the fall line as little as possible with CM and therefore I get caught easily in the back seat. Im not comparing myselfe to Bode in anyway but I have seen him do the same. If I dont get the skis to turn and come back Im sitting down.
post #42 of 102
Thread Starter 

Retro

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
This is the first thing I noticed in the second video. Wow! I figure they are probably 4" too long (but maybe just 2"). Also, in that video, you seem to balance more on your heels than on the arch of your feet. That's why the blocking pole plant in the bumps throws you back and totally off-balance.

I do see a fair amount of tail push in a number of the turns (even some of the carving turns). I'd encourage you to play with dialing that rotary back a lot.

I also noticed on that first turn in windpack the problem was your pole plant! You went to do a blocking pole plant, put your weight on it, and drove it through the windslab. As a result, your body fell backwards with your hand and you found yourself off-balance.

If, instead, that had been a pole touch with a gentle entrance to that turn, I think you would have stayed more over your skis. It seems that you're relying on your poles a lot for balance and stability, and perhaps that's why you ski them so long...

You know I don't like those wedge turns...

...and those closed-stance carves are retro-cool! Rock on!
I was waiting for someone to say something about the closed-stance carves... I think they are cool as well. They look like they are skidded but they are infact perfect "narrow" rr .

Thanks for the comment on the ski poles. I need to get me a pair of shorter ones just to see how that affects my skiing these days. Yes, I use a lot of blocking pole plants and I also use a lot of entasipation. Thats my style.
post #43 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
The push is very noticable in the first few turns of the series under the chairlift. Then, he drops into a bit more of a carve, but I think that he's pushing his tails out at the top of the turn, then carving the bottom half. What do you see there?

Similarly, on those big carved turns, he's lifting that (new) inside ski and letting the (new) outside ski drift out. Sometimes, he is pushing that ski out, I think. Thoughts?
ssh, you are perfectly right. Those skis did not have a lot of shape to them and in the clip under the chairlift I was trying to make evenly skidded (scarved) turns that naturally became carved at the end. Notise that I use my knees a lot in the top part of the clip. Im have a more even stance on both skis in that clip than in the previous (first) clip. Any comments?
post #44 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
Rats! Can't view vid clips at the office!
Major Bummer!!!! Leave office staight away.....
post #45 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
Thanks for the comment on the ski poles. I need to get me a pair of shorter ones just to see how that affects my skiing these days. Yes, I use a lot of blocking pole plants and I also use a lot of entasipation. Thats my style.
...but in most conditions, the blocking pole plants are actually hurting you (especially with poles that long, and in that wind slab). Something to consider.

Adjustable poles?

Try bumps and tougher snow without blocking. It will help you work on the top of the turn and get the edge engaging earlier, which I think will help smooth out the turn overall.
post #46 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
A brief pole plant is probably just something we do now as we are loosing the pole plant entirely. Look at the second chapter how I dont use my poles to the end of the clip.
I certainly did notice the lack of pole plants in the bigger GS style turns and I noticed this myself when doing GS turns, sadly didn't video because I think I did these pretty well). Unless one had little tiny baby poles it is pretty much impossible to do anything but a poling like slight motion, and pretty much only for the sake of keeping the same technique / fluididty in play rather than it having a real actual purpose.

I would still really like to get your comments on my (laymans) take on things.

"The thing I really notice with good carve skiing is the skier moves his upper body slightly up the hill more so than his hips (hips driving downhill - with the turn, and upper body slightly more uphill orientated than the hips causing increased pressure on the downhill ski).

Also I notice that the skier moves his body that way in the turn until his body is in position to simply touch the pole down. No arm movement or hand movement to MAKE or direct the pole plant. It's seems the body is moved to place the hand and arm into position creating only a drop of the hand to make pole contact.

Is this correct as this seems to me consistent in all good carve skiing I have seen."
post #47 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
....with a back problem.....
From breaking at the waist?

So did softening those boots up help that problem?

L
post #48 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
...but in most conditions, the blocking pole plants are actually hurting you (especially with poles that long, and in that wind slab). Something to consider.

Adjustable poles?

Try bumps and tougher snow without blocking. It will help you work on the top of the turn and get the edge engaging earlier, which I think will help smooth out the turn overall.
Yeah, Im with you here. Blocking pole plants are not allways that usefull and can harm posture and balance. However, much of my style in bumps for example circles arround hitting that snow pile and heap of snow on the hillside face of the bumps that skiers with early edge angles skidd into that spot. I crash into that snow and sometimes that snow flies all over the place. This is the reason I dont apply that much edge angles early in the turn and I love to stay in the fall line longer just to brake my speed at the bump. The pole plant is part of that style and I have been dooing it since early 80's. Shorter poles might be a way to decrese the negative affects of my pole work today.
post #49 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
From breaking at the waist?

So did softening those boots up help that problem?

L
Yeah, but I did it this fall so its not showing in any current video I have. Its gonna be interesting to see what it did to my skiing.
post #50 of 102
Thread Starter 

Midnight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmot mb
I certainly did notice the lack of pole plants in the bigger GS style turns and I noticed this myself when doing GS turns, sadly didn't video because I think I did these pretty well). Unless one had little tiny baby poles it is pretty much impossible to do anything but a poling like slight motion, and pretty much only for the sake of keeping the same technique / fluididty in play rather than it having a real actual purpose.

I would still really like to get your comments on my (laymans) take on things.

"The thing I really notice with good carve skiing is the skier moves his upper body slightly up the hill more so than his hips (hips driving downhill - with the turn, and upper body slightly more uphill orientated than the hips causing increased pressure on the downhill ski).

Also I notice that the skier moves his body that way in the turn until his body is in position to simply touch the pole down. No arm movement or hand movement to MAKE or direct the pole plant. It's seems the body is moved to place the hand and arm into position creating only a drop of the hand to make pole contact.

Is this correct as this seems to me consistent in all good carve skiing I have seen."
Gonna get back to this post tomorrow. Goodnight.

And thank you all for posting. Keep the Q and critic comming.
post #51 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmot mb
"The thing I really notice with good carve skiing is the skier moves his upper body slightly up the hill more so than his hips (hips driving downhill - with the turn, and upper body slightly more uphill orientated than the hips causing increased pressure on the downhill ski).

Also I notice that the skier moves his body that way in the turn until his body is in position to simply touch the pole down. No arm movement or hand movement to MAKE or direct the pole plant. It's seems the body is moved to place the hand and arm into position creating only a drop of the hand to make pole contact.

Is this correct as this seems to me consistent in all good carve skiing I have seen."
Hey, Marmot mb... 'sup?

I'm not sure I follow your upper-body comments. The upper body tends to stay more perpendicular to the slope at all times, while the hips are adjusting to maintain a particular edge angle (which is a function of skis, slope angle, speed, and preferred turn radius). This does allow the hands to move very little for a pole touch, though. And it is just a touch most of the time (unless you need to block to recapture or help with balance).
post #52 of 102
TDK6, Nice job, takes courage to post a vid of yourself to some of these sharks!

I am not sure where all this resistance to hops turns on steep terrain comes from. I find that on steep terrain little quick hop turns are just another way to unweight the skis, and easier done on steeps than in the flats where it is a lot of work. PPL who have done hop turns on the flats and on the steeps know the difference.

I think you showing your first turn also shows a lot of courage as you say your ski got away from you but you recovered without falling and proceeded generally in balance thereafter. Skiing is afterall the art of constant recovery and we are not instructing for the US ski team in PSIA.

The one thing that stands out the most for me is your extension and flexion seemed minimalized, I saw it and think if you try extending more into each new turn (especially on the steeps) then you will find more leg with which to flex throughout the rest of the turn to better manage edge pressure and this might help reduce the amount of side-slipage during the finishing phase of your turn. Given the steepness and snow hardness I expect there would would still be some present. It's about minimizing it in my book.

you show generally good balance after the first turn or so and good leg rotation in the hip socket. you managed your speed well on such a steep and crudy snow type. you generally made the run look steep and groomed. Good Job!
post #53 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
I'm not sure I follow your upper-body comments.
I think after re-reading my comment I mixed the upper and lower up. So sorry to everyone about that. Tiny brain syndrome kicking in again.

let me re-phrase.

"The thing I really notice with good carve skiing is the skier moves his hips slightly uphill more so than his upper body or shoulders (hips driving more in direction of the skis - with the turn, and upper body slightly more downhill orientated than the hips causing increased pressure / weight on the downhill ski). The shoulders however are not neccasarily held sqaure to the fall line but rather only slighty more downhill than the hips.

Also I notice that the skier moves his body that way in the turn until his body is in position to simply touch the pole down. No arm movement or hand movement to MAKE or direct the pole plant. It's seems the whole body (acting in two parts, upper and lower) is moved together to place/bring the hand and arm into position creating only a drop of the hand to make pole contact.

Is this correct as this seems to me consistent in all good carve skiing I have seen."


I think I have been too set on keeping my hips and my shoulders acting as one and not orientating them seperately. I want to ensure my take on this is correct.
post #54 of 102
I see a lot of ski-tail skiing. No ski tip skiing. You are not starting turns by engaging the edges from the fore part of the ski. You bend your knees too much to allow easy pressuring of the ski shovel. Your focus is completely outside-ski related. You make turns just like your wedge turns, where your emphasis is on making the tail of the outside ski go around. You ignore the benefits of beginning turns with the inside ski. Some turns I see your hips rotate as if you're pushing the outside ski. You're not riding the skis. You are forcing them with your muscles. You have wonderful balance. You can hold yourself in a position where most of us would be falling down. But you're working way too hard and are way too rigid.
post #55 of 102

Kneale

I agree. There is muscle turning going on - only thing you can do if you get back. This is tough terrain, but engaging the tips is important. How do you do that? I would say, pressure the shin. Steeps is one of my favorite opportunities to pressure the shin. The slope puts you in position. Please let me know if you feel that I am off track.

Hop turns increase disruption and take away from economy of motion.

But! this is steep and nasty snow. I'd like to see the full speed version too. More would be revealed and we would likely be more gererous with praise.
post #56 of 102
tdk6 as I suspected you ski in a very traditional style but better than I would have guessed from your posts. The length of time spend on skis is evident, you have wonderful balance.

The inefficiencies that Kneale points out were evident in your posts and represent sking the fast line slow instead of the slow line fast. You are a wonderful strong skier. With a change in focus to the slow line fast approach you would easily take quantum leaps far beyond what you would guess.

Windslab to ice to crud and back to windslab is one of my favorite conditions. Verbier is one place I hope to ski one day. One of my hero's lives and skis there.
post #57 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul jones
I agree. There is muscle turning going on - only thing you can do if you get back. This is tough terrain, but engaging the tips is important. How do you do that? I would say, pressure the shin. Steeps is one of my favorite opportunities to pressure the shin. The slope puts you in position. Please let me know if you feel that I am off track.

Hop turns increase disruption and take away from economy of motion.

But! this is steep and nasty snow. I'd like to see the full speed version too. More would be revealed and we would likely be more gererous with praise.
He actually flexes the ankle enough to maintain boot/shin contact, but he flexes the knees so much it counterbalances the effort. The real problem is that he does not move into turns with the center of mass at initiation because he is using the outside ski exclusively. There is no effort to engage the inside ski or involve it in the directing of the skis. The inside ski is doing catch-up, which is holding him back. Improvement will only come if he revises completely his approach to using the skis. His current practice is to turn the skis rather than to guide them and let them turn him. He has fantastic athleticism that made him a great skier 10-15 years ago, when the equipment available required the moves he makes now. He needs to take his new equipment onto a really easy slope and experiment with how well it can work for him.

BTW, the snow only looked "nasty" in that one section in the first video that is repeated in the second. The rest looked really inviting. Hop turns are completely valid for some conditions. But he hops straight up off the old outside foot rather than into the turn with both feet, which further complicates the back-seated results.
post #58 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson
He actually flexes the ankle enough to maintain boot/shin contact, but he flexes the knees so much it counterbalances the effort. The real problem is that he does not move into turns with the center of mass at initiation because he is using the outside ski exclusively. There is no effort to engage the inside ski or involve it in the directing of the skis. The inside ski is doing catch-up, which is holding him back. Improvement will only come if he revises completely his approach to using the skis. His current practice is to turn the skis rather than to guide them and let them turn him. He has fantastic athleticism that made him a great skier 10-15 years ago, when the equipment available required the moves he makes now. He needs to take his new equipment onto a really easy slope and experiment with how well it can work for him.

BTW, the snow only looked "nasty" in that one section in the first video that is repeated in the second. The rest looked really inviting. Hop turns are completely valid for some conditions. But he hops straight up off the old outside foot rather than into the turn with both feet, which further complicates the back-seated results.
Ok, i will say what i think (even if i did not want to do it): Short and medium turns he lifts the inside ski off the snow (the snow conditions are very good). Why? I do not know.
Carving: he could angulate more. Maybe he can but did not show us in that video.

I guess we are sharks, after all...

Tdk, you are a great skier, but we are just trying to help.
post #59 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul jones
I agree. There is muscle turning going on - only thing you can do if you get back. This is tough terrain, but engaging the tips is important. How do you do that? I would say, pressure the shin. Steeps is one of my favorite opportunities to pressure the shin. The slope puts you in position. Please let me know if you feel that I am off track.

Hop turns increase disruption and take away from economy of motion.

But! this is steep and nasty snow. I'd like to see the full speed version too. More would be revealed and we would likely be more gererous with praise.
I posted annother videoclip in a previous post showing the run at regular speed. Here it is so you dont have to search for it:

http://media.putfile.com/Verbier_2004_Skidemo-1

You are right about pressuring the shins more. However, once I recovered from the first turn and got a feel for the snow I found my balance. Much have to do with the Nordica boots that are very stiff and were new at the moment. I have been checking out new boots now this fall and they are all very much softer.
post #60 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
tdk6 as I suspected you ski in a very traditional style but better than I would have guessed from your posts. The length of time spend on skis is evident, you have wonderful balance.

The inefficiencies that Kneale points out were evident in your posts and represent sking the fast line slow instead of the slow line fast. You are a wonderful strong skier. With a change in focus to the slow line fast approach you would easily take quantum leaps far beyond what you would guess.

Windslab to ice to crud and back to windslab is one of my favorite conditions. Verbier is one place I hope to ski one day. One of my hero's lives and skis there.
Thanks for your nice words. You are too kind. We have been debating mogul skiing and stance width last year so thats something I would like to have your comment on. Do I have a close stance or not?
Yes I have a traditional style but I have been working on getting the hang of a more two footed stance. A lot has happened since I made the videos showing here.
For example the FLS is something I had no clue of back in 2004. It would be very interesting to hear your suggestions of how I could improve my skiing using that consept.
Verbier is a cool place and one of the best resorts for offpist skiing here in Europa. They have a couple of lifts taking you places with no marked pists down. Like Mount Gele.

And windslab is deffinetly not one of my favorite terrains.....
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