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Pole plant timing with Inside Leg Extension

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I have been working with gradual inside leg extension to initiate a new turn, and being more patient waiting for the turn to develop.

When using a pole plant more decisively in steeper terrain, I'm now unsure as to when it happens in relation to this early pressure by my inside foot/ski/leg.

In the past I'd initiate my turns with a plant early, now it feels like I should begin that ILE first and then plant the pole.

Is that correct?
post #2 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
I have been working with gradual inside leg extension to initiate a new turn, and being more patient waiting for the turn to develop.

When using a pole plant more decisively in steeper terrain, I'm now unsure as to when it happens in relation to this early pressure by my inside foot/ski/leg.

In the past I'd initiate my turns with a plant early, now it feels like I should begin that ILE first and then plant the pole.

Is that correct?
probably
post #3 of 12
Per Bob Barnes the touch should occur at, or just after, new edge engagment.
post #4 of 12

Radius, ILE and pole plant

I'm sure Rick (our resident MP expert) will break this down further but the pole plant serves one of two purposes, ILE or other movement patterns employed for edge release and new edge engagement.

In larger radius turns the pole plant is more of a timing movement than used for actual initiation (Cross Over, under or through) or upper body stabilization. Certainly if the skier is a bit out of balance the pole plant can be used to recover balance but in a balanced transition the pole plant simply helps keep the hands working smoothly within the context of the turn, timing. Many higher level skiers simply do not touch or plant the pole in GS size turns. In my own skiing I utilize ILE or simultaneous leg extension (SLE) in most of my GS turns regardless of terrain. I do not consciously worry about touches unless needed to recover from a balance issue.

In short radius turns (Slalom, 17 Meter and down), especially when using ILE the tendency is for the CM to be directed up and over the feet rather than down hill inside of the new turn (projection). A pole plant timed at or just before the release will get the upper body inclinated over the pole plant and moving downhill to the inside of the new turn. The pole plant will also stabilize the upper body momentarily and allow the skier to absorb the energy created by first the ILE move and then the release of the skis to the new turn.

In both larger radius turns and small radius turns terrain will affect the need for a timing pole plant versus a stabilizing pole plant.

ILE is a great way to get the CM moving down hill to the next turn as long as the energy is not allowed to dissipate vertically. A pole plant can be the ideal way to redirect the energy forward to the new turn as it inclinates the upper body towards the new turn prior to the edge release creating optimal alignment as the lower body unwinds into the new turn.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Great post Gary, thanks!

Do you thus push the timing a bit ahead of Bob Barne's as Coach quoted him above - saying at or after the edge change?
post #6 of 12
Yes, Gary, nice post.

SMJ, yes, if you want to insert a good pole plant, I'd suggest executing between the time you feel pressure transfer to your old inside foot, and at or before that foot has rolled back to flat.

I'm like Gary. In GS type turns I don't place much focus on a pole plant. In fact, unless I specifically think about it while skiing, I'd wouldn't be sure at the end of a run if I was planting or not. My focus is mainly on balance, pressure, edging, and picking a safe line through all the dang non cavers.
post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
Great post Gary, thanks!

Do you thus push the timing a bit ahead of Bob Barne's as Coach quoted him above - saying at or after the edge change?
Thanks, was just blowing out the cobwebs after being brain dead for the last week. Yes, absolutely, for timing the touch should be just before the release. For a stabilizing pole plant it must be at the release otherwise the racer will end up on the toilet. See Bode's Slalom runs as of late, he pole plants late and behind him which gets him going way to straight into the ensuing gates or combinations, then kblam! He's out. On the other hand if you got to the WC video link I provided and watch Rocca or Ligety, the timing is right on or just before the release.

post #8 of 12
Steve,

Great post.

I actually have become quite consious of this as I master the new short carvers. You recall our background is similar, big Lito fans, emphasis on stepping early to the new ski and initiating the transfer with a solid pole swing. I have found in high speed long turns on the new skis the deeper angles make pole plant both unnecessary and actually quite difficult. There simply isn't enough room in the high speed two footed turn to swing the pole all the way through to initiate a turn(at least the 50" poles I am currently using)due to the extreme angles created with the new technology. Further, the power and rebound of the turn make it somewhat unnecessary. I found myself using more of a pole tap or swing (but never past vertical) to help time the turn. I also was quite consious that this was simultaneous with the initiation of the edges changing vs a signal to initiate the turn. It was quite fun indeed to play with the new sensation. I am nearly certain I will be at Wachusett Wednesday....perhaps we can explore it a bit more together. Visit www.amsao.it and view the oro avanzato segment for some examples of what I am talking about....hope to see ya Wednesday!!!
post #9 of 12
Tip, touch, then turn..

Good mantra and self coaching to get your timing down.

The faster you go, the quicker this happens.

Now, Where to touch?
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
hrstrat, nice video. talk about using all four edges! I wish I could understand the Italian Voiceover.

For the record I used to be a Lito fan, now am focusing on PSIA methodologies.

Was up to the wa yesterday, today, tomorrow morning, but Wednesday as it turns out may be going somewhere else with family. I'll pm you when I know.
post #11 of 12
Of course watch the best WC racers and most don't have a simultaneous release. They begin moving to the new inside edge before releasing the old inside edge and the pole touch or plant will come where ever they need it to get the job done. It's very hard to compare WC or very high end racers and the rest of the general recrecrational population.
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
hrstrat, nice video. talk about using all four edges! I wish I could understand the Italian Voiceover.

For the record I used to be a Lito fan, now am focusing on PSIA methodologies.

Was up to the wa yesterday, today, tomorrow morning, but Wednesday as it turns out may be going somewhere else with family. I'll pm you when I know.
Might wanna rethink going elsewhere...wa was gonna get the bulk of the snow again!! I might have my girls with me....but if you're there I can certainly break off from them and blast a few runs with you...lemme know....great thread this is gonna generate some real relevant stuff for me. I was quite focused on it Saturday. The new ski's forced me to rethink my technique for the better. Regarding www.amsao.it look at oro base and argento avanzato too....real good visuals for us former "Breakthrough on Skis" guys I have found it to be priceless.

ttyl
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