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GS/Cross-Carver or All-Mountain??

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Looking for a 2nd pair of Ski to provide
1) stability at high-speed GS turns on groomed (usage 40%)
2) good performance in powder and crud (usage 60%)

I own a pair of Rossi 9S in 165cm and will keep them anyway for days without fresh snow and busy slopes.

I'm a Level 9-10 skier, weight 70kg, size 180cm, skiing in Switzerland and Austria mainly.

Had in mind something like the Voelkl Unlimited AC4, Rossi Bandit B3 or Voelkl 6Star, minimum length 180cm.

Do you have any other advice and which skies would you perfer for what reason?

Thanks in advance!
Martin
post #2 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkam
Looking for a 2nd pair of Ski to provide
1) stability at high-speed GS turns on groomed (usage 40%)
2) good performance in powder and crud (usage 60%)

I own a pair of Rossi 9S in 165cm and will keep them anyway for days without fresh snow and busy slopes.

I'm a Level 9-10 skier, weight 70kg, size 180cm, skiing in Switzerland and Austria mainly.

Had in mind something like the Voelkl Unlimited AC4, Rossi Bandit B3 or Voelkl 6Star, minimum length 180cm.

Do you have any other advice and which skies would you perfer for what reason?

Thanks in advance!
Martin
Hi Martin,

I use two different types of skis and try to accomplish two goals with my gear:

I like one ski for hard-snow carving; this ski (Fischer Worldcup RC) requires constant attention & skill and I do not care if it is versatile or performs well in softer snow. My second ski is for soft snow conditions. I like this ski (Dynastar Intuitive 74) to be a little more forgiving for the type of skiing that comes from variable conditions and tired legs.

Your Rossignol 9S fits the requirements for hard snow carving; I would only consider a more versatile ski for soft snow conditions. The Volkl Unlimited AC4, Rossi Bandit B3 fit this description. The 6 Star is less suitable as a second ski since it is less capable in truly deep snow than your other choices.

The Elan M666 or Magfire 12, Dynastar Legend 8000, Head Monster 88, Nordica Hot Rod Modified, and Stockli Stormrider XL should also be considered.

The Elan M666, Head Monster 88 and Stockli Stormrider XL are laminate construction and meet your "1) stability at high-speed GS turns on groomed (usage 40%), 2) good performance in powder and crud (usage 60%)" criteria the best.

Hope that helps,

Michael
post #3 of 19
I agree with barretscv that the 6 star does not belong on your list. It is very similar to what you have.

IMO the mid fats with the best hard snow (G.S. specific) feel are the three top end Nordicas, and the Head Im 77. The Volkl AC-3 feels good in longer sizes, but to me, the AC-4 feels a bit too turny when G.S. speeds are the goal. I have recently tested some Elan Magfire models and was not impressed with the hard snow performance. The 666 could be a different animal however, and I cannot comment since I have not tested it.

SJ
post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkam
Looking for a 2nd pair of Ski to provide
1) stability at high-speed GS turns on groomed (usage 40%)
2) good performance in powder and crud (usage 60%)

I own a pair of Rossi 9S in 165cm and will keep them anyway for days without fresh snow and busy slopes.

I'm a Level 9-10 skier, weight 70kg, size 180cm, skiing in Switzerland and Austria mainly.

Had in mind something like the Voelkl Unlimited AC4, Rossi Bandit B3 or Voelkl 6Star, minimum length 180cm.

Do you have any other advice and which skies would you perfer for what reason?

Thanks in advance!
Martin
I also don't think the 6-star is a versatile ski. It is more of a hard snow ski that, while different than the Rossi, will accomplish the same thing. You need more of a midfat.

Skis are getting so good these days that you can get very solid hard-snow performance with the right midfat ski. The good hard-snow midfats are typically torsionally stiffer and more stable than some of the softer midfats (K2 Recon a good example of a "forgiving" midfat) but they do almost as well as race skis at speed, on hard snow. The downside is that they may not be as forgiving as a K2 Recon or Dynastar 8000, which is what one would expect. I think what you want is definitely available in a 75mm-ish waist ski. If you want a really want a bomber high-speed GS ski as well (most people won't need it, but some might), pick up a pair of used GS or racecarver boards. There are skis like the Atomic GS9 and Head i-Race that are great skis but not in high demand, therefore the price will be very good.

As SJ mentioned, the Chip 77 is a great do-everything ski that is suprising on hard snow. I skied the Magfire 10 on hard snow last spring (very un-Northwest-like conditions for early Feb, but par for the course last season) and the pair I had was a great hard-snow carver. It isn't real GS-like though, but it handled crud well. SJ's pair may have had a poor tune (our regional Elan rep always has his skis in pristine condition-they ALWAYS seem to perform). The best "mid-fat" ski that I have used on hard snow to date (for my preference at least) is the Elan Magfire 12. That thing feels like a GS on hard-snow sweepers. The tail is quite stiff, and it really powers you from turn to turn. A friend of mine, who is a strong level 9 with a racing background (he raced as a kid up through college) loves that ski. He describes it as very stable, smooth, and super energetic-a ski that can plow through crud at any speed and that he can load up the tail on, just like a race ski. If I was going to buy a GS-like mid-fat and hard snow performance was of high importance, that would be at the very top of my list.
post #5 of 19
dawg:

After all the positive stuff posted here about Elans, I have been considering picking up the line. Therefore, I was really surprised that the Mag 8 and especially the Mag 10 were so poor on hard snow. But, the fact is they sure as heck did not stand up to skis like the SUV 12, the Head iXRC 800, or the Nordicas. A few other things bothered me about the Mags as I felt they overturned when pressured on steep very hard snow. This could have been binding position, as I have certainly felt this way before on a biggish shape when set up too far forward. I haven't closed the book on Elan but for now they are at the back of the bus as a new line for me (pending further testing).

BTW..........I agree with your recent comments Re: rep tuning. Some of these guys don't know what files are for. I try to consider the effect of the tune when evaluating stuff and I can usually decipher when the base is a 1/2 degree off or so, but boy!! those skis really were bad. (in fact even the K2's held better).

But.....the Rep is an old friend of mine and I know he'd leave me a pair or two for a month. That way I can tune 'em myself....................

SJ
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Many thanks for your feedback. Will go skiing next week for about 6 days and will certainly test a few of your recommendations above. Will post here as soon as I'm back with my own comments.

Thanks again,
Martin
post #7 of 19
Martin,
For the puposes you stated, and, what is more, your stated lavel of skiing, the absolute best, in my opinion, is Atomic Metron B5 or Nordica Top Fuel.
Volkl AC4 is not bad, either, but cannot compare with Atomics.
post #8 of 19
have a look at the stockli stormrider XL. 174, i'd say.

i think i will demo it in samnaun next week. i will then be able to tell you how it works in "european" conditions.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
It seems these skis, AC4, Hot Rod Top Fuel, Stormrider are incredibly difficult to find at dealers or even in the web at least in Europe. Not even thinking about finding a good deal.
I also read a similar comment about the HRTF is kind of sold out in the US.

Why don't these ski manufacturers just build enough to at least have plenty stock into January?

Any comments from Europeans whether you've the same experience or a place you can still find them?:
Any comments from US if there's a shop in the Dallas/Tx area? I know this sounds strange, but I'll be there for a business trip mid of Jan. If I can find a good deal, why not buying them there.

Thanks,
Martin
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkam
Any comments from US if there's a shop in the Dallas/Tx area? I know this sounds strange, but I'll be there for a business trip mid of Jan. If I can find a good deal, why not buying them there.

Thanks,
Martin
Hi Martin,

You might consider buying online from a North American seller and have them shipped to your associates in Dallas before you arrive. Then just bring them home with you.

Just a thought,

Michael
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkam
Looking for a 2nd pair of Ski to provide
1) stability at high-speed GS turns on groomed (usage 40%)
2) good performance in powder and crud (usage 60%)

I own a pair of Rossi 9S in 165cm and will keep them anyway for days without fresh snow and busy slopes.

I'm a Level 9-10 skier, weight 70kg, size 180cm, skiing in Switzerland and Austria mainly.

Had in mind something like the Voelkl Unlimited AC4, Rossi Bandit B3 or Voelkl 6Star, minimum length 180cm.

Do you have any other advice and which skies would you perfer for what reason?

Thanks in advance!
Martin

First, regarding length I think you could go short than 180. My GS race skis are 188 and the 175 in the 6* is more than enough ski for me. One ski I would consider that is not on your list is the Fischer RX9. I nice all mountain ski that is more of a GS carver than some of the others you mentioned. If you want ao true GS carver the Fischer RC is the only choice. I would go with 180 in that ski. The 6* also isn't a bad choice, and is what I use along with the Fischer RC (and of course my true race skis) but while it handles GS turns very well, it is more suited to short turns than say the RX9 or the 5*.
post #12 of 19
Here in Switzerland it's practically impossible to find anything with more than about 70 mm waist in "normal" shops - even specialist ski shops - unless you go straight to the fatties (Gotama etc). Even in Austria, where they hvae better range of "all mountain" skis, we didn't see the AC4 or Top fuel etc. The concept of the "all mountain ski" doesn't seem to exist - whether that's simply down to received wisdom and the slalom tradition, or a reflection of European conditions I don't know. The one exception is Stoeckli, being a Swiss brand, which has a number of retail shops stocking their whole range in every size.

Edit - just to add, you will probably have more luck in one of the large French resorts, 3 vallees etc
post #13 of 19
for some reason, where i live (northern germany, 800kms from the alps) the midwide ski supply coudn't be better. i takes me a 3 minute walk from my home to a shop that has them all: metrons, apache recon, rossi b2, scott aztech, nordica nitrous, you name it.
post #14 of 19
Head Monster 88. As long as you don't plan on skiing them through icy bumps.
post #15 of 19
My vote would be the Stockli Stormrider AT or XL..... AT has more sidecut and is a little "softer" than the XL. It's a serious crud buster with an almost race GS ski personality.

Caution: Last years AT and this year's are very different skis. If you think you found a bargain in last years model you may be a little disappointed as it's narrower with less shape. Last year's (or this year's) XL if you could find it would be a great ski to do what you're looking for.
post #16 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdan
for some reason, where i live (northern germany, 800kms from the alps) the midwide ski supply coudn't be better. i takes me a 3 minute walk from my home to a shop that has them all: metrons, apache recon, rossi b2, scott aztech, nordica nitrous, you name it.
Hi Snowdan,

can you name the shop to me? Do they have a web-page and do they ship skies?

Thanks,
Martin
post #17 of 19
www.sportboerse-muenster.de

they do not ship skis i am afraid.

another shop to consider is ski-bilek.de
post #18 of 19
The Nordica Hot Rod series are some of the best crossover skis I've seen. Good powder performance and great performance on the groomers/hard snow as well. Top Fuel is more of a speed freak, the Nitrous has a layer or two less metal, making it softer and more forgiving.
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
just got an offer from a dealer nearby for the Nitrous (in stock) being 230 EUR cheaper than the Top Fuel (he need to order, EUR 750,-).
But I wonder if I would regret to spend the extra money for the extra layers which cost me stability I guess.
What do you think, since the shape is the same. Also he said, the Top Fuel only comes with the Marker Piston (making it so much more expensive.)
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