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Skating

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I've been told mutliple times from many different people that my skating is very inefficent. I am a racer so the skate is a crucial part of the start. Anyone have any ideas on how to improve this? I have been told that im not chanelling enough energy fowards but rather pushing to much to the side. I've tried pushing less to the side but then I get no grip on the snow. Any ideas? Thanks.
-Scott
post #2 of 24
Go to your local Nordic center and take some skating lessons. I've noticed some of the top Alpine racers use a stride we call V2 alternate. Since we started skating on XC skis in the 80's my Alpine skating has really improved.
post #3 of 24
Yeah, I got yelled at by my coach a few seasons ago because he was 50 and could beat me out of the start gate... of course within a few turns I would catch and pass him, but I was losing a huge amount of time out of the start. I found that treating it like a sprint (running track) helped, as well as skating very very very far forward, and kicking hard out of the start. Play around with it when you're free skiing. Usually if you stand next to a lift tower you can imitate a start gate well enough to practice it.
Later
GREG
post #4 of 24

Nordic skating technique is called for....

Back in the mid 90's when I took my exam we had to go through nordic skiing technique as well. The skating part was very usefull and I have been applying this technique in my downhill skiing ever since with great success. The whole point is to not skate sideways or push backwards. The way we had to learn the basic skating moovement was to take our skis off and stand on one foot knee bent. From this position we had to jump backwards. The backward jump moovement edjects your ski forwards.
post #5 of 24
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Scott, here are some drills,

>Practice skating on flat ground (snow), going as fast as you can. Time your sprints, and strive to improve your times.

>Same thing on slight uphill grades.

>Do skate races on flat ground against a friend.

>Do timed two gate skating courses, and two gate skating dual course races, on your regular training hill.

>Do thousand step drills, with each step being a powerfull thrust forward.

NOW GET TO WORK!! : (my hard ass coach face)
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Scott, here are some drills,

>Practice skating on flat ground (snow), going as fast as you can. Time your sprints, and strive to improve your times.

>Same thing on slight uphill grades.

>Do skate races on flat ground against a friend.

>Do timed two gate skating courses, and two gate skating dual course races, on your regular training hill.

>Do thousand step drills, with each step being a powerfull thrust forward.

NOW GET TO WORK!! : (my hard ass coach face)
Agreed. Without a coach being specific about exactly why you are being slow and how to fix it, the best thing to do is to just skate around a lot. Gentle uphills will probably provide the best feedback about what you are doing. Maybe set up a little practice area, where you skate uphill for a certain distance (mark the now with dye), then see how far you can continue to glide before you stop.

Parctice with the different things that come into play: The angle of divergance of the ski you are pushing away from and the angle at which you thrust your CM (forward or to the side), the edge angle, the fore/aft pressure, the starting position (you can't push very much from a leg that's already straight - make sure you start from a very low position so that you have a lot of leg extension to use), and pole use, as well as probably a few others I have missed.

Get a video camera out and have someone video you and some better skaters (or record some WC races and look at what they are doing) compare them.
post #7 of 24
A thousand repeted skating exersises will not help you if you dont have the right technique. Get in contact with a nordic ski coach or racer and aske for some advice. Thats how you make quick progress. Get out of the box and be open minded. Talking to ice speed skaters will also help. I did all that and Im the fastest skater on the transport streaches everywhere I go with very little effort. I dont race anymore.
post #8 of 24

Skating

How can you possibly expect to correct your style through this forum? Take the advice and go to a Nordic center.
post #9 of 24
I'm a newbie skater - I can only skate down a gentle slope. When you push off with a ski (lets say right ski) do you also push off with the right pole? Or left pole, or no polling?

thanks
Dave
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoof2
I'm a newbie skater - I can only skate down a gentle slope. When you push off with a ski (lets say right ski) do you also push off with the right pole? Or left pole, or no polling?

thanks
Dave
There are different rhythms but usually its double push with the poles at every other skate if you are not in a hurry. Uphill and accelerating its different.
post #11 of 24
Really push you knee to the inside with each skate. Keep low as well, cause it makes getting the knee inside a lot easier. This keeps it high on it's edge from the beginning. And yes, you should try pushing to the side, but try pushing backwards a bit as well. Start out with your skis as straight as you can. Get in a skiing position and put pressure on ball of your feet as well. This is also where you should be pushing. Double pole pushes do help me cause it allows me to realy drive myself forward more than actually propell me. I can beat anyone on my ski team on skating races (except Dave. He's an ANIMAL!)
post #12 of 24
Actually if you want to take advantage of the "nordic skating ski" style you should not ride your skis hard on any edge, move your knee to the inside or push sideways or backwards. You should push your ski forward and step onto a flat ski heading straight forwards.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATskier
How can you possibly expect to correct your style through this forum? Take the advice and go to a Nordic center.
ahem...

Some people can take the written word, use visualization and actually apply it to dramatic effect. Others can't. This forum exists for conversations about anything skiing related, so there's no reason not to gather as much information as possible from it.

FWIW, I'm one of those who benefit greatly from conversation, visualization, written explanation, and analysis.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
ahem...
I like that, Steve. It's polite code for, "HEY,,,, A-HOLE !!", right?
post #15 of 24
One tip I recently got for skating was to keep the upper body centered between your skis (as opposed to moving it over each ski as you step onto the snow). I've also heard that you should land your steps on the inside edge as opposed to landing it flat then rolling it onto edge. If you are really explosive, the double pole touch every other step should be done to assist the weaker leg.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidudettocs
I have been told that im not chanelling enough energy fowards but rather pushing to much to the side. I've tried pushing less to the side but then I get no grip on the snow. Any ideas? Thanks.
-Scott
On flat terrain, roll on to an edge then push off and glide on the other ski keeping your glide foot pointed in the direction of travel. Bring the other leg back so the thighs are close together.

When you do this where is your hip? Is it leading or hanging behind? I've seen lots of people do this drill and push their ski out and leave their hip behind.
post #17 of 24
I have no idea if this has any bearing at all, having formerly played hockey, I was talking to some of the figure skating coaches one morning.

We were talking about how to minimise the amount of effort in skating - more speed and less effort.

She had us doing drills arcing across the rink single push on one skate - using your balance toe to heel to get the momentum from one side of the rink to the other.

It does pay off and you do eventually use your balance to better effect to get more push from your muscles and less energy spend....

My instructor on Monday said it was obvious I was an ice / inline skater when it came to flats.....

I dont know if that will help in anyway but .....
post #18 of 24
Oops, one thing I forgot to mention. Make sure that your upper body is upright. It can move side to side, but don't make your shoulders lean more than your hips. Keep it straight as a ramrod, really helps for me.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
One tip I recently got for skating was to keep the upper body centered between your skis (as opposed to moving it over each ski as you step onto the snow). I've also heard that you should land your steps on the inside edge as opposed to landing it flat then rolling it onto edge. If you are really explosive, the double pole touch every other step should be done to assist the weaker leg.
I would say those were two bad tips. While skating in world cup racers has become more centered over the last few years, they still throw themselves out over a flat ski and ride it, then throw themselves to the other side, and ride that one. We use to say line up nose knees toes. Now some top skaters point to the center, but the big weight shift is still there.

I skied yesterday on Alpine skis, with a former US ski Team nordic skier. The minute we started skating on a cat track you could see how effortless it is for her. If you get a chance, watch some ski skating in the Olympics.

One tip I can give: If you go take a ski skate lesson the first thing they will have you do is skate on the flats without poles. Do some of that and you'll see quite clearly what works. Then keep that motion going and add a double pole motion, either on both sides, or just one side.
post #20 of 24
Never raced in my life, but IMHO, if you want to learn how to skate, umm, go rent a pair of ice skates (hockey or better, speed skates) and take a lesson or two. Seriously. Think of ice skates as very thin skis; they have two extremely sensitive edges per hollow-ground blade, they require superb fore-aft balance since you're usually riding only on a few cm of one edge of one blade at slalom speeds, and they require more of a right now feel for that edge than any ski. If you can handle hockey skates at speed, I'd bet your ski's needs will feel straightforward.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog
I would say those were two bad tips.
Woof!
These tips are for accelerating out of the start. I watched the person who gave me these tips demonstrate them. He accelerated very fast. I have no doubt that your tips are valid for nordic. But these tips are not dog poop.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
Woof!
I have no doubt that your tips are valid for nordic. .
Alpine too. I saw Bode in the birds of Prey the year he won do a nice nordic V2 Alternate skate at the start. Other racers poled both sides. Bode had 0.3 lead at the top of the first pitch, more than his winning margin.
post #23 of 24
Anyone notice you're yellin up a holler?
post #24 of 24

aaaaaaaaaaooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Anyone notice you're yellin up a holler?
Nordic yelling up a hollar my friend.....
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