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Edge Sharpening Questions

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I have been tuning my skis for around 2 seasons now, but I've never really been able to do a great job on my edges.

I have no problems waxing (that's easy).

P-Texing I'm getting better at (though any suggestions on scraping off excess p-tex to maintain maximum base flatness would be welcomed.


My problems with sharpening are two-fold:
#1 - Bases - When I do my edges, (my sharpener is #MTK-701 at tognar.com in their edge bevel guides section) I find that i get streaks in my bases from putting pressure on the file guide to actually sharpen the edges. I bought base tape, but this doesn't seem to help all that much. It also hurts my hand to press so hard. Would a better guide/file help?

#2 - Various stones/polishing - I always here people on this forum talking about freehanding their polishing stones, and using different diamond stones, etc etc. I always feel that when I freehand my polishing stone, I am dulling my edges. I have a deburring stone that is two-sided that I use before I sharpen, but I don't do anything after for fear of runining all my hard work. Is this all an illusion, or does my technique suck?


Thanks in advance, as always,
James
post #2 of 17
1.) Do not sharpen your base edge. Just take off nicks and burrs by freehanding a stone or gummi flat against the base edge. Once your bevel is set either from the factory (which is not always accurate) or a shop tune, you should not file it or increase the file degrees with tape or you will increase the base bevel making the ski not hook up as well. The edges get sharpened by using a side edge guide properly.

2.) Invest in a side file guide such as an SVST guide and a spring clamp. It will allow you to use any stones or files you already have for the side edge.

Try to find a local shop that can give you a quick tutorial or do a search on this board for websites that may help you out.
post #3 of 17
Scalce, why wouldn't you want to use a base bevel guide with a stone every now and again?
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc gledhill
Scalce, why wouldn't you want to use a base bevel guide with a stone every now and again?
You definately can do this but I very rarely touch my base edges unless there is damage. Sometimes even using a 1 degree base guide on a 1 degree base edge can increase the bevel due to more pressure being applied then needed. Freehanding a stone lightly againts the base edge lessens the chance of this.

If his base guide or base edge is not the correct degree then all he is doing is removing base material right next to the edge. Also by increasing the degree of the guide to make proper contact he is just making the problem worse.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
I don't do my base edge. I was referring to my side-edge bevel guide rubbing against my bases.

James
post #6 of 17

Anyone here have experience with this tool:

Swix Side Edge File Guide w/ Rollers
Item:25880Price:WAS $39.00
NOW $32.50 You Save:$6.50! Availability:Refer to Sizes/Options


Could this do a better job of protecting the base as the edge is being sharpened? It comes in a variety of bevel angles from 0 to 4 degrees
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Golick
I don't do my base edge. I was referring to my side-edge bevel guide rubbing against my bases.

James
You should not be applying that much pressure.

The ski should be tipped on it's side and you apply some pressure to the guide on the side edge.

You are probably hitting the sidewall and it is stopping the stone from making proper contact.

Watch some of these videos and it should help.

http://www.swixschool.no/
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Hmm... Yes, I think I am hitting the sidewall.

Do I need to get a sidewall planer?

Also, the above definitely looks kinda neat. Do you guys think it would really work, or is better technique the best way to protect my bases??


I watched some videos @ swix school. Other than suddenly feeling a strong desire to purchase just about every Swix product there is , I think I learned alot.

The guy in the video doesn't seem to be putting much effort in to sharpening at all. I do think I'll need some new file/stone guides though.

What do you think of KUU stuff? It is the most available around here, and they definitely make file guides.

Also, what side edge angle should I do my AC4s at? Gotamas? Head IC200s?


Thanks,
James
post #9 of 17
There are different schools of thought on the sidewall removal but they all do the same thing.

1. You can backfile - This is using a higher side bevel first to remove the sidewall. So if your side edge should be 3, then you start filing at 5, then 4, and then by the time you get to three you can make full contact. This is a pain if you do not have a good panzer or cross file, an adjustable side bevel guide, or the money to buy multiple fixed guides.

2. You can buy a sidewall planer. I have the SVST worldcup but you can get by with the cheapest one you can find. You don't have to do it too often.

3. You can tilt a multi tuner or fixed side bevel guide at an extreme angle and run it along the sidewall. This is more for pros that have a good touch and will not screw it up while freehanding.

4. You match the side bevel with a side bevel guide and clean your file which will still remove the sidewall but it will gunk up your file and you will have to make more passes.

Just make sure that you have a good file that is not too long to do the initial cutting.
post #10 of 17
I think the gist of all this is that you shouldnt be pressing that hard...Just like in skiing, let the tool do the work. You don't want to remove much, if any, edge material...it's a finite resource and if you overdo it, you'll have to shell out the big $$ for new sticks.
post #11 of 17

use a guide!!!!

There are any number of great tools out there that will give good results. I use the beast and side of beast from the race place. They also have good stones for $30 or so. Start out with a coarse stone and work up to a fine one. I find a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol and water to be a good solvent to use for cutting. I stone our skis after every use and brush out afterwards to see if they need to be waxed. Throw out the multi use tools, they lead to much frustration. Get tools which are specific for a certain base bevel and side edge angle, in the beast set up, the base bevels come in .5 degree increments, I find the .5 degree base bevel good for most eastern conditions. The 1 degree base bevel works but I find the .5 gives a more stable ski with better edge hold on ice. I've used the 2 degree side angle for the past several years with good results on atomic, dynastar, fischer, k2, solomon and stockli skis. I know atomic calls for a 3 degree side angle but my daughter, a former high school and junior racer didn't notice any difference between 3 and 2 on her slalom skis. Sun valley ski systems also has a good product. Once you get the process wired it really isn't rocket science although some would have you believe so. Happy trails.
post #12 of 17
There's no real reason to worry about sidewall planing unless you have straight sidewalls. If they are a cap construction then they shouldn't be in the way.
post #13 of 17
How do people replace structure lost to p-tex repairs?
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
There's no real reason to worry about sidewall planing unless you have straight sidewalls. If they are a cap construction then they shouldn't be in the way.
That's not always the case.

I have taken off some side material on all my Atomics. My 1080s which are also a cap ski needed some material removed to get a clean cut.

Most good planers have a square carbide bit for straight sidewalls and a circle bit for cap skis.
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
That's not always the case.

I have taken off some side material on all my Atomics. My 1080s which are also a cap ski needed some material removed to get a clean cut.

Most good planers have a square carbide bit for straight sidewalls and a circle bit for cap skis.
Scalce is right, vertical sidewall or cap, to get a true 3 degree you have to plane 'em.

I don't like the looks of those wheels on the tool above. it seems it would pinpoint to much pressure as opposed to a tool with a plate which spreads the pressure over a bigger area!
post #16 of 17
Good articles at
http://www.starthaus.com/
You can use a utility knive blade (sideways)
in a pinch for removing material.
or freehand with a coarse, short file
at a hefty angle.
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Scalce is right, vertical sidewall or cap, to get a true 3 degree you have to plne 'em.

I don't like the looks of those wheels on the tool abovbe. it seems it would pinpoint to much pressure as opposed to a tool with a plate which spreads the pressure over a bigger area!
Point taken Scalce and A-man. I bought a planer last year and for my SX11's and RX8's haven't felt a need to use it yet. I'll have to take some material off and see.
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