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ESA Eastern Weekend report - Page 4

post #91 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Can we get any idea of what we can actually expect lesson wise?
If it does not involve watching instructors ski off down gnarly moguls and skiing fast with rocks underneath the surface then what does it contain?
OK, depending on the level of the group you are in will depend on what you can expect. There isn't a detailled syllabus laid out for each level of skier, it's not about what the instructor wants to teach you, but what you want to learn.
It does not involve watching instructors show off (unless you beg them to).

Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Can you tell us how we can swap between groups? (I have had this promise before but never saw the other groups until that night... so you could swap forthe NEXT day only...)
Normally on the first day all the groups will arrange to meet at teh same place and time for lunch, so, no, you won't get a chance to swap every run, but you may have to ski until lunchtime in one group before swapping. You can then swap again at the end of that day. For the other days, groups tend to arrange their own lunch times and locations, so it's not as easy to swap, but it is still possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Or how you plan to group us? remember I have NEVER skied a run in the USA... so how will you group us? I cannot tell you how I ski on YOUR terrain & we all know that terrain is marked with a relative marking system.....
Disski there will be many people there who have never skiied in Snowbird before, PLEASE STOP PANICKING!

Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
Can we get a run down from a previous student of any of these instructors on how they like to run lessons? Or from the instructors on how they like to teach? remember most of these guys are UNKNOWN still... they do NOT post here..... what are they like -personality wise - teaching wise.... I don't want their CV's - I want to know about THEM...
I refer you to my above post!
post #92 of 138
Oh, and by the way, I know you say that they are unknown, and don't post here, but I've just checked - at least 8 of the 16 currently post on here (could be more)
post #93 of 138
Yo Fox, Glad your skis turned up. Mine did also as I posted earlier. Had the good fortune to drag them back to the airport unpacked, unused, and clean but .... safe and sound. Working out restitution with the airlines as we speak. Glad you had a safe trip home and be sure to drop a PM anytime you plan on crossing the big pond.

One additional item for everyone who was in attendance. It would have been very nice to have had a quick farewell meeting before parting. It would have been great to share e-mail addresses, stories, and summaries of progression by the instructors. I realize that logistically this might be difficult, but definetely something to consider. It seems that we all parted to the winds with our own memories without having one last chance to compare notes. Maybe if we quit at a designated time say 2:30 PM by all groups we could have enjoyed each others comraderie one more time.

Having said all that, it was indeed a great experience and money well spent. For those out there who aren't sure about the ESA experience, I'll leave you one thought, "TRY IT, YOU'LL LIKE IT" !!!

Thanks All,
Doug
post #94 of 138
I think it took me 3 hours 16 minutes and 43 seconds to see my video.

disski, lighten up man. This is about a fun thing to do. Don't get hung up on the small things. EPIC is not here to ripe you off.

There will be people to teach you how to enjoy skiing more. Don't worry about the terrain. The snow is the same everywhere. You'll do fine. Come to the event from a positve place not a negative. If you came expecting the worst, that's is what you will find.

I wish you would let go and enjoy what your about to do. The people here want you to enjoy skiing as much as we do. Like I have in my sig, the better I get, the more fun this becomes.

Relax and enjoy the trip, life is to short to worry about everything. If the EPIC events didn't work, do you think this site would still be here.

I wish you could have seen Mike Rogan face when he told us how much fun he was having skiing with (only) the 5 of us. That means alot coming from
him.

Your coach will be as positive, no matter what your level of skiing is. These guys and gals are some of the best the world at what they do. You won't be disappointed.

Max
post #95 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic
Sorry to hear about your knee. What I am interested in though is your boots. How are they workin out for you? What did you end up doing with them?
I went to PJ Dewey's shop on Friday and he evaluated my stance and came to the conclusion that I was severely knock kneed with 2.5 degrees off on each foot which he said was pretty severe. He ground the soles and put in the riser and brought the boots back to DIN specification.

When I took them on the snow on Saturday at the clinic I noticed right away something felt different. It took a little getting used to as I am used to leaning my feet on the outside edges due to my knock kneed posture. I could feel pressure on both sides of my feet which I have never felt before and I felt like the whole ski was making contact with the snow. My knees didn't feel stretched either which usually happens. The only negative was I should have got on them before the academy on Saturday to get use to the new feel. As I mentioned I wiped out on my first run when the inside edge grabed on my right foot when I was still using my old technique of really leaning my calf hard to the inside to get any edge contact. I no longer have to do that but it took a little getting used to.

I am happy with the boots and since that was my primary objective I got what I came for-in addition to the fine instruction by Bob Barnes of course and the new skis won in the raffle .

Thanks for the tip.
post #96 of 138
Disski,

One thing about these coaches is that they really do teach to the needs of the group. They can teach via many different styles. Michael pointed out when we started that we needed to tell him what we wanted to get out the event. He then observed us all and put together a lesson plan in his head on how to meet everyone's needs and still have "flow" between topics and tasks. These coaches are VERY VERY good at this. As an instructor, I learned just from watching this go on.

It's going to be a while before I get to writing up my clinic notes for this event (I've got two other events to get to first). Although the PSIA clinics that I take involve higher end skiing, you can get a feel for what they are like by reading my clinic notes from other events.

One thing that I consistently fail to capture the essence off in my notes is how much fun these clinics can be. Yes we're there to learn and yes it can get serious and technical (note - the coaches at ESA went out of their way to avoid techno speak). I noted at the dinner that pretty much everyone I talked with was having a great time.

You
Will
Too
post #97 of 138

Lowest Group Ski Instruction

Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
YOUR worried...

I'm terrified of new resort, terrified of new instructors, terrified of steep anythings, scared of speed, & an asthmatic (unfit at that due to all the injuries) flying into elevation.....

urrrggghhhhh

I'm in a panic!:

Dear Disski-

You need to stop panicking! I was in the lowest group and had a wonderful time. I've skied for a long time but had been ill for a couple of years, and hadn't skied recently. I was in a class of 5 with Stu Campbell, and he gave us the basics on gentle terrain. He did take us on some intermediate hills, but he never took us anywhere we could get in real trouble. I had a couple of falls (1 a full frontal crash into Stu - my fault) but people do fall when skiing and Stu forgave me for hitting him. As a seasoned instructor, he was able to see when I was getting too tired and told me to quit for the day. Luckily we were at a really nice resort, so I went home after lunch and sat in the outdoor hottub with a good book in the afternoon. Sunday, I skied for a couple of hours and then had to quit again. Again, Stu got me off the mountain before I could hurt myself. His main instruction to me was to ski as much as possible to get my strength back, and I'm looking forward to starting my new regimen on Friday!

This trip is about a lot of things. It's about compatible people having a great time outdoors. It's about really great lodging and food. It's about fine tuning your skiing, so you can get better and about spending time with a lot of really great people! Go and have fun!

nonnie
post #98 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hazmat
One additional item for everyone who was in attendance. It would have been very nice to have had a quick farewell meeting before parting. It would have been great to share e-mail addresses, stories, and summaries of progression by the instructors. I realize that logistically this might be difficult, but definetely something to consider. It seems that we all parted to the winds with our own memories without having one last chance to compare notes. Maybe if we quit at a designated time say 2:30 PM by all groups we could have enjoyed each others comraderie one more time.
Yo Haz baby,

Who needs email addresses? We're all on Epic and PM'able. Stories were for Saturday night. It's going to take me another week or so before I get my notes written up. Where's your notes? And 2:30!?? Are you nuts? That's wasting valuable snow time. We went to 3:30 and then I had to hit the road to get home (at 4AM) to work the next day. There was probably a fox or two in the bistro Sunday night though.

In the meantime, isn't this thread pretty much getting to it all?
post #99 of 138
Not that you should eat your heart out but RiDeC58 and oboe skied Monday as well. Snowed all day. Got freshies. Fan**kin'tastic. Don't have any legs left to speak of, but they'll GROW, and I'll be the big gorilla this weekend!:
post #100 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe
I'll be the big gorilla this weekend!:
Not if you can get the Doc to shave your back...
post #101 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by evansilver
Dear Disski-

You need to stop panicking!
I agree! Lets not let this discussion turn into something to placate one person's endless concerns, especially after everyone advises 'don't worry about it'.
post #102 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by evansilver
I was in the lowest group and had a wonderful time. I've skied for a long time but had been ill for a couple of years, and hadn't skied recently. I was in a class of 5 with Stu Campbell, and he gave us the basics on gentle terrain.
Hmmmm... So, the most seasoned coach... A guy who has been writing for SKI mag for years, who was the demo team coach, etc. etc. etc. was the guy coaching the group with the most to learn.

I find that amazingly telling about the approach at an EpicSki event, don't you? I'm jealous.
post #103 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Hmmmm... So, the most seasoned coach... A guy who has been writing for SKI mag for years, who was the demo team coach, etc. etc. etc. was the guy coaching the group with the most to learn.

I find that amazingly telling about the approach at an EpicSki event, don't you? I'm jealous.
Again, that is why this site and the people on it are so special. It's all about doing the right thing to help our fellow skiers improve.

Max
post #104 of 138
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The more I read, the more I kick myself for not coming up: : .
post #105 of 138
Say Phil, don't mean to hijack the thread, but I was wondering if you got the PM I sent you at the end of last week. I sent a few PM's to various people, and I have no varification of them ever getting them. By the way, I spent the weekend at Stowe, although I did not participate in the ESA, as I was there with friends. Pretty incredible conditions for pre Xmas. Stayed for Monday and was treated to a powder day. 1st run off the gondola skied the top of Perry Merrill in mid shin deep western style powder. What a treat. And they say that Tuesday was even better.
post #106 of 138
Disski,

Since when are competent expert skiers skiing with a PSIA-D Team member through tough terrain dick waving lessons? I'd bet every member of Rogan's group was practically begging to watch him ski the bumps at speed so that they could learn from it. The review did not say "Mike Rogan met our group at the top on the first day and immediately after getting off the lift gave us the finger and did a switch 360 into the hardest bump run in the east while shouting obcenities at children."

You are coloring these reviews by approaching them from the perspective of the worst possible camp you could imagine. Unless we have been reading different posts, I have seen nothing that suggests the kind of self-absorbed image seeking playboy you would rightfully hate as an instructor would even be considered as a candidate to teach at the ESA.

Advanced skiers displaying high level skiing in rough conditions is not macho bullshit. It's exactly what those students came to the ESA for. Practicing dynamic parallel on blue groomers is not noobie gaper bullshit. It's exactly what other students came to the ESA for.

I think it would be a travesty to let fear of the worst instructor in the world put you in a panic until Snowbird comes around and turns out great anyway.
post #107 of 138
Lots of new people here aren't accustomed to Disski's chicken-little paranoia.

It ain't rational, and you won't be able to argue it away, so best to just ignore it.
post #108 of 138
like that.
post #109 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The more I read, the more I kick myself for not coming up: : .
Did I mention that I was there?
post #110 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The more I read, the more I kick myself for not coming up: : .
Next year Phil? I was really hoping to see those Kryptons ripping on those Metrons....(Notice Phil sounds like a bad Sci-Fi movies from the 50s now??

Just kidding Phil, but it was a great time and I hope to meet you next year.
post #111 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiDeC58
Next year Phil? I was really hoping to see those Kryptons ripping on those Metrons....(Notice Phil sounds like a bad Sci-Fi movies from the 50s now??

Just kidding Phil, but it was a great time and I hope to meet you next year.
Next year I could be on a completely different set up . I will be up at Sunday River in March, so if you want to get together then.
post #112 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Hmmmm... So, the most seasoned coach... A guy who has been writing for SKI mag for years, who was the demo team coach, etc. etc. etc. was the guy coaching the group with the most to learn.

I find that amazingly telling about the approach at an EpicSki event, don't you? I'm jealous.
One thing I find amazing about Stu is that he actually remembers me. I've attended all three Eastern events, and Stu has too. I've never had him as a coach, so the only time I've actually "met" him was during Saturday mornings pre-event discussions. Yet when I saw him on Saturday morning this past weekend he immediately and enthusiastically recognized me, greeted me by name, expressed delight that I was able to attend again, etc. Huh? I doubt I've spoken to him for more then 3 minutes in my life, he's never seen me ski, I've never seen him ski, and yet he remembers me. How does he do that?

With the possible exception of Bob Barnes, Stu is the most "into skiing" person I've ever met.

Mike Rogan -- the coach I worked with at ESA-East this year -- told me that on the rare occassions he's actually at Heavenly (his home base) he spends most of his time teaching low-level classes. I had to wonder if his students ever realize who they just had as their instructor. It would be like being taught physics by Einstein himself.
post #113 of 138
I don't see anything but a positive coming out of a reasoned effort to address the concerns. Dumping on disski isn't so cool.
post #114 of 138
I'd have to agree with Mr. Straw on both points.

disski, I'm attending for the first time too and am also nervous about making the trip as I have no idea what to expect and worry that my skiing won't be "up there" with the others.

But at the end of the day, what's the worst thing that could happen? That you get stuck in a ski area for a week during the season?

I think I can live with that
post #115 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity
The snow is the same everywhere.
Max

ummm - actually I do not think so....

the TREES are very different for a start....

We ski in conditions resulting from mostly positive temperatures during the daytime....

I remember standing hunting for the boulders at Whistler .... when the instructor asked me what I was doing I explained (I know which mounds of snow are most likely to be a thin cover on a boulder at my resort... because I know what it looks like in summer).....

When he said - about x feet down I was looking down the slope..... then he had to explain they were BURIED that far down so my chance of impact was small....
post #116 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc gledhill
I'd have to agree with Mr. Straw on both points.

disski, I'm attending for the first time too and am also nervous about making the trip as I have no idea what to expect and worry that my skiing won't be "up there" with the others.

But at the end of the day, what's the worst thing that could happen? That you get stuck in a ski area for a week during the season?

I think I can live with that
Nah Marc - I can be much worse than that if I get frustrated.... I'd probably start hiking the highway just to get the frustration out..... (don't laugh I could just as easily do it.....)

It is VERY hard to be constantly told to do the same thing you cannot do &/or be told that "of course you can - everyone can do that" ..... ummmm sorry some stuff I cannot do.... It gets worse when someone tells you they have years of experience & they have never met someone who couldn't..... or worse still asked "why" I cannot do it.....ummm - if I knew the answer I probably could solve the problem....


I wish I'd never answered that question but chris did ask why people thought it was for advanced skiers when Avis asked that...
post #117 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc gledhill
disski, I'm attending for the first time too and am also nervous about making the trip as I have no idea what to expect and worry that my skiing won't be "up there" with the others.
I'm feeling compelled to respond to this again as one of my posts was quoted by disski as evidence that some of the groups might be a little nuts (i.e., "high speed through crud" comment).

I attended the Big Sky ESA camp last year. The coach I worked with there was Bob Barnes, although given the response of the other coaches to my plight, I can't imagine that his handling of the situation would be any different then anybody elses.

On the very first morning, Bob found out -- the hard way -- that I am terrified of heights. He dropped into a trail that he had thought none of us would have a problem with; I took one look down and said "no way". I wound up taking the easy way around as the rest of the group skied down the "hard way".

At that point there were 3.5 days to go. There was not a single time for the rest of that ESA where Bob left me as the last one to drop into a steep trail, or as the last one to ride a high chairlift, and Lord knows that we did plenty of both. I volunteered to switch groups as I felt that I was holding the others back (it was a high-level group probably capable of skiing nearly anything at Big Sky), but Bob wouldn't hear any of it, and neither would any of the other students in my group. You will not be abandoned atop a steep trail wondering "how am I going to do this?". Nobody is going to poke fun at you or humiliate you or do anything but sympathisize with you if you do get beyond your personal comfort level. Everybody has a "oh my god" point, and there is nobody at the ESA camps -- coach or student -- who would ever even remotely consider being nasty enough to actually enjoy somebody elses torment. I think it's a testament to how well Bob addressed both my physical skiing deficincies and my psychological skiing issues that by the end of the Big Sky ESA, I was the one asking to ski the very same mogul trail that had freaked me out on the first morning. Now that's progress!

Likewise, I wasn't in the least bit phased when Mike Rogan took us to the top of an icy double black and dropped over the edge at ESA-Stowe on Sunday. The key movement pattern that Mike was talking about us all weekend was highly evident as he skied down, so by no means was it a display of "hey, watch me" and was more a display of "what I'm telling you needs to occur NEEDS TO OCCUR". It was an amazingly educational display, not an amazing ego trip.

Simply put, the coaches will not put you into a situation that you aren't comfortable being in. You have nothing to worry about.
post #118 of 138
Kevin I hear you load and clear. I'm sure it will be a good do! I understand that the coaches are some of the best out there and that the Bears are very genuine and generous people.

I know all this. But I'm still nervous. Like I used to be before a rugby game or a cycle race.

I appreciate your post, and hope you didn't feel compelled to type all that in just because of my post.
post #119 of 138
Thread Starter 
KevinF, that's a great post... thanks!

I find it interesting, as well, that Bob told stories on himself at the ESA last year. He told about his crash with Dave Merriam at Stowe when Dave lifted him clear off the snow (coaches day, I think). He told about getting the crap scared out of him during an international instructional event in the Alps. And so on. Typical of the ESA coaches that somehow they stay in touch with the mortals like me who can get to a "holy ****" place easier than they.

In fact, that happened to me during coaches' day at ESA Big Sky. In a weird change of plans, I ended up as the videographer last year, so skied with the coaches during their mountain tour. During our first "warm up" run, we skied top-to-bottom on a crusted-over groomer at mach schnell. I started to get uncomfortable. Later on, I froze on Liberty (backside of the summit at Big Sky). Another coach (VSP) asked me what was wrong and ended up helping me get going again. He also later gave me coaching on steep bumps.

The point I'm trying to make is that one of the reasons that these folks are the best of the best is that they really connect with their students and fashion everything for them. I am in awe. Really.
post #120 of 138
Thread Starter 
It seems from this that we need to add to the Academy FAQs. I'll start a new thread, but help us add to them so that we can address concerns that folks may have? Thanks...
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