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Skis for Trees & Bumps - Page 2

post #31 of 48
I'm going to throw my lot in with the Volkl AC4. Loved it in the bumps. It has enough sidecut to be a quick turner and enough girth to offer some flotation on those days when you get fresh snow over the hardpack and ice.
post #32 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willb
I'm going to throw my lot in with the Volkl AC4. Loved it in the bumps. It has enough sidecut to be a quick turner and enough girth to offer some flotation on those days when you get fresh snow over the hardpack and ice.
Willb, Thanks for your recommendation. Seeing that you are from the left coast I know that you enjoy more "favorable" conditions. The ski characteristics that were prevalent in recommendations from those who ski in the West were quite different then those who ski mainly in the East. GrizzleyFD's & Ghost's earlier descriptions of what we encounter here in the East was right on.
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Daly
Willb, Thanks for your recommendation. Seeing that you are from the left coast I know that you enjoy more "favorable" conditions. The ski characteristics that were prevalent in recommendations from those who ski in the West were quite different then those who ski mainly in the East. GrizzleyFD's & Ghost's earlier descriptions of what we encounter here in the East was right on.
Understood, though Washington isn't much like the Southwest for conditions. Think "heavy snow" and that's what we get a lot of. Hardpack isn't all that unfamiliar around here, but true "packed powder" is.

Since I haven't skied the Legend 8000s or AC3s or similar narrower skis all I can say is that for bumps in trees on hard snow I'd think you'd want a ski that turns very quickly, has great edge grip, and a soft enough tip to be forgiving and flexible and the AC4 meets these criteria. I found it to be a super fun bump ski, trees or not. Note what Max Capacity had to say about them - he's from you're side of the country, no? They're probably not as good on ice as the AC3s, 6 stars, or Legend 8000s though...

One thing I've learned this year - everyone seems to like something different so it pays to ski as many different skis as you can before committing to a purchase. Good luck!
post #34 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willb
Understood, though Washington isn't much like the Southwest for conditions. Think "heavy snow" and that's what we get a lot of. Hardpack isn't all that unfamiliar around here, but true "packed powder" is.

Since I haven't skied the Legend 8000s or AC3s or similar narrower skis all I can say is that for bumps in trees on hard snow I'd think you'd want a ski that turns very quickly, has great edge grip, and a soft enough tip to be forgiving and flexible and the AC4 meets these criteria. I found it to be a super fun bump ski, trees or not. Note what Max Capacity had to say about them - he's from you're side of the country, no? They're probably not as good on ice as the AC3s, 6 stars, or Legend 8000s though...

One thing I've learned this year - everyone seems to like something different so it pays to ski as many different skis as you can before committing to a purchase. Good luck!
Thanks WiilB for the sound advice. The Volkl AC3 & AC4 have come up as good alternates at several points in this thread. I was talking to my ski shop today and he said that he was going to attempt to speak with the VolkL Rep about a "performance guarantee". I guess if Volkl agreed they would swap out a ski that would suit my needs. Have you or anyone else heard of that type of guarantee before or is it my ski shop trying to appease me? Anyway if that came to be, I guess I would choose between the AC3 and AC4.
Also thanks for the insight on Washington conditions; I guess if I'm headed west for champagne powder I should stick with Utah!
Rob
post #35 of 48
That Volkl "peformance guarantee" sounds similar to Atomic's Metron guarantee. If it's for real then great - it certainly inspires more confidence in making a purchase decision.
post #36 of 48
For tight and firm trees in the east, you need to be able to slide your tails and cut speed. I'd stay away from carvers (anything with an SC or SX in the name) and the metrons which have too much sidecut and tails like to only carve unless you're really good at shifting your weight.

The enemies and and 8000 are definitely not too wide. It's the width at the tip that will be most important for that type of skiing, and you'll see they both have tips narrower than most carving skis. They still have enough sidecut to rail GS turns, will be more stable underfoot, and will be a whole lot less "hooky." Just plain more fun in anything off the groomed.

Normally I'd say aim soft, but at your weight you can get a little more ski. If you really only ski in the east, aim for mid-70s to mid 80s waist, under 125mm tip, which should get you around 18m-20m sidecut in a 170-180cm length. My personal preference is for something livelier (less metal) and wider (for when you discover some powder in the trees).

Keep in mind twin tips are effectively MUCH shorter than they're labelled length. A 172cm 8000 will ski longer than a 179cm public enemy. Enemies also happen to be a ton of ski for the money. If I were you, I'd try to demo some of the following:

Volkl t-rock, Karma, and AC4
K2 public enemy
Rossi B3 (or last years B2)
Elan m666
Dynastar 8000 and 4800/int-74 (skinner but fun)
Fischer AMC 79, BigStix 8.0 and 8.6 (last years)
Head Mojo 80 (madtrix in previous years), i.M77
Salomon 1080 foil, scrambler hot

my personal preference bolded
post #37 of 48

Salomon, Dynastar and Line for you

Salomon 1080 Flyers - they are 80 underfoot.
Dynastar Candide's - if you can find em - 75 underfoot.
Line Profit 80's - haven't tried them, but they look and sound nasty.
Line MTX Assassin (75) or the stiffer MTX Pro (80)

Suggestions...
post #38 of 48
Thread Starter 

Volkl Performance Guarantee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler
That Volkl "peformance guarantee" sounds similar to Atomic's Metron guarantee. If it's for real then great - it certainly inspires more confidence in making a purchase decision.
I'll let you know how I make out.
post #39 of 48
Thread Starter 

Volkl T-Rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
For tight and firm trees in the east, you need to be able to slide your tails and cut speed. I'd stay away from carvers (anything with an SC or SX in the name) and the metrons which have too much sidecut and tails like to only carve unless you're really good at shifting your weight.

The enemies and and 8000 are definitely not too wide. It's the width at the tip that will be most important for that type of skiing, and you'll see they both have tips narrower than most carving skis. They still have enough sidecut to rail GS turns, will be more stable underfoot, and will be a whole lot less "hooky." Just plain more fun in anything off the groomed.

Normally I'd say aim soft, but at your weight you can get a little more ski. If you really only ski in the east, aim for mid-70s to mid 80s waist, under 125mm tip, which should get you around 18m-20m sidecut in a 170-180cm length. My personal preference is for something livelier (less metal) and wider (for when you discover some powder in the trees).

Keep in mind twin tips are effectively MUCH shorter than they're labelled length. A 172cm 8000 will ski longer than a 179cm public enemy. Enemies also happen to be a ton of ski for the money. If I were you, I'd try to demo some of the following:

Volkl t-rock, Karma, and AC4
K2 public enemy
Rossi B3 (or last years B2)
Elan m666
Dynastar 8000 and 4800/int-74 (skinner but fun)
Fischer AMC 79, BigStix 8.0 and 8.6 (last years)
Head Mojo 80 (madtrix in previous years), i.M77
Salomon 1080 foil, scrambler hot

my personal preference bolded
Being a NH skier you know well the conditions we are blessed with. Many of your suggestions were echoed in earlier threads. One Volkl ski that had not been mentioned was the T-Rock. When I searched for it on the Volkl website it described the T- Rock as "Völkl's first telemark-specific model. Völkl's Sensorwood Core gives the T-Rock the confidence to go anywhere. The 87mm waist provides great float for those soft days and there is enough sidecut to carve the groomed, too."
Are you suggesting to mount "regular Alpine bindings" on the skis? If so I find that intriguing. Thanks for you suggestions. I'm also going to check out the others that were on your list.
post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Daly
Being a NH skier you know well the conditions we are blessed with.

Are you suggesting to mount "regular Alpine bindings" on the skis? If so I find that intriguing. Thanks for you suggestions. I'm also going to check out the others that were on your list.
Im actually out in CA now, just haven't updated my profile. But did 7 winters in NH and lived for the trees (spent most of my time at Jay), though I actually despise bumps.

T-Rock I haven't actually skied yet, but know a few folks using it for alpine touring (fritchis or dynafits), so fixed heel, and they love it. Based on the dimensions, the construction, the flex , and the opinions it would be my choice (and possibly will be what I mount my dynafits to). It will be light, lively, medium flex, and still have decent edge-hold. It's on the very fat end of what you should be looking at, but if you hit the trees more for powder than for ice (say at Jay and Mad River) I bet you'll like it. It's at least worth a demo if you come across it.

edit: you know, you've got about 30lbs on me... you're probably better off with the karma than the t-rock. same dimensions plus another sheet of metal. it will be easier to find for demo too.
post #41 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcnoble5
Salomon 1080 Flyers - they are 80 underfoot.
Dynastar Candide's - if you can find em - 75 underfoot.
Line Profit 80's - haven't tried them, but they look and sound nasty.
Line MTX Assassin (75) or the stiffer MTX Pro (80)

Suggestions...
I was looking at a ski shop last night hoping for some demos but to no avail.
The had a pair Line Assasin last years it seemed pretty close to the Chronic.Looked very desirable.
Also the Rossi scratch fs this year I was told is much stiffer than the previous models ,should make this ski alot better.
post #42 of 48
Does anyone have any experiance with randonee /back country alpine skis? I was at Campmour last weekend there was a couple of skis that looked interesting.
post #43 of 48
I use Volkl Expression, I think the Dogen replaced it for 05/06. The Expression is a little too soft for deep powder, but is ok for light powder. I love them for the trees...they go exactly where I want them to, and they are surprisingly stable at long arcs. It's a nice cheaply priced ski, but after 2 very busy seasons they're showing they're age. Anyone familiar with Dogen?
post #44 of 48
Thread Starter 

The Dogen

According to the Volkl web page, it describes the Dogen as for the Pure Pipe & Park Specialist. Read more of the description of it by clicking on the Gear Info tab at the top of the page. Best of Luck.
post #45 of 48
For whatever it's worth, a Volkl rep told me that the T-Rock, Karma, and Queen Attiva are all built around the same design/chassis, with the Karma twin tip the stiffest and the Attiva the softest. So if you've skied any one of them, you'll have a sense of how the others feel. Wouldn't recommend any of them as a "bump/tree" ski, though. IMO, softer is better for that - think French.
post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
I would say Fischer WC SC, but I don't want to sound like a broken record (dating myself).
me too, but beware the metal bendables within the ski!

being aware of the bendables, and skiing in ways that don't make the shovel prang into the backside of an icy bump, will yield lots of mogul fun on the WC SC. even when the bumps are western, soft and cruddy.
post #47 of 48
Personally,

I think you need two pairs of skis....go out an buy a ski in the 80-85mm waiste range...this will be your nice weather ski....then when things get bumped up like they do in the east...even in the trees....ski a mogul specific ski...you can find good mogul skis on ebay for 100-200 bucks....if you ski in the east you need a mogul ski...just like if you ski in the west you need a powder ski
post #48 of 48
I recommend the Rossignol B1. Very quick, forgiving in the bumps, and great edge hold on hardpack. At 70mm wide it is quick edge to edge and still has enough float for crud and powder that is not too deep. Maybe too narrow if you are spending lots of time off piste.
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