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Hand punch after pole plant

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Comments on this idea please?

After a pole plant immediately subtly punch the hand that just planted forward. This acts to keep that hand and arm from dropping back.
post #2 of 22
When I punch my hand forward it is usually 100% of the time because I allowed it to get back.

IMHO... if you are "PLANTING" you are polling too hard. I'd suggest pole touching and the entire motion should ideally be in the wrist. The Arm and shoulder muscles should maintain proper balanced arm position so that a punching motion is not needed.

However the reality that skiing is a art of constant recovery, there are more times then I would like where I allow one hand/arm to hang back, in those cases I believe punching the hand forward is a easy and quick correcting move for balance.

Hope this helps your outlook!
post #3 of 22
I don't care for it. I think it implies your hand stops when you plant, and now you have to do something.

I want to 'touch' my pole tip and let my wrist hinge so the forward movement of my hand is not interrupted and only rises slightly to follow the arc created by the pole as I ski by.
post #4 of 22
It's a good "remedy" to get over "trailing arm syndrome" .... if you have it.

Touch or plant .... if the arm stays behind .... same cure.
post #5 of 22
I like the term "Drive" your hands forward to be aggressive. Punching is not nearly subtle enough. Can cause too much upper body motion and imbalance.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
Good comments. Thanks. I don't really "plant" the pole unless it's steep terrain, it is more of a pole touch.
post #7 of 22
I usually tell students to let the hand go "up and over" after the pole touch so that it goes forward, but not to make an additional thrusting movement that might disturb balance. The action goes on lower down.
post #8 of 22
Helps a lot in the moguls. I was working with Finndog on this. I liken it to "shifting from second to third". It helps you heep your body square. IMHO, it is one of the most important tecniques.
post #9 of 22
I personally do not like the exercise although I will not discount its worth for some people. I am a balance and stance person who wants to keep all the unecessary movements out of the upper body and direct things from down below. I want the hands in view and steady. If a student cannot keep them there then we will probably work without poles or work on pole movements from the wrist. Any punching motion or arm swinging introduces upper body movements I would just as soon stay away from.
post #10 of 22

I go

from outside to inside with the pole angled in toward the ski. I think it helps alot and I have done it for years. It helps to be precise and agressive.
post #11 of 22

I was taught hands should be where they need to live - no matter what....

Pole plants - wrist only.... anything that wobbles arms around is making me "flail" so upper body is affected...

So unless I NEED upperbody to do something so I am using hands to achieve this I should not need more than my wrist.... NO?
post #12 of 22
I think I am with disski on this one. The hands really shouldn't be moving independantly of your body when you are initiating (or making) a turn (regardless of terrain). My hands are usually out to the sides slightly, up, and in front. I don't use much of a pole plant, as PSIA defines it, but I do make the necessary movements to get the desired effect of moving forward into the turn. This is a habbit that carries over into my carving from slalom racing. When I freeski I nearly always use a plant. Anytime my hands are moving forward my upper body is typically moving with them. If you hards are moving a lot and it is independant of your body it implies that you might be dropping your hands to your sides when you are not pole planting.
post #13 of 22
The use of "the punch", as I know it ... is not a way to ski ... but a mechanism to break a bad habit.

After you get someone who has been "trailing" or leaving the pole behind after the plant, to use the punch, it does result in a quieter upper body.

You would never even pull it out of the bag if there was no reason to.
post #14 of 22
I will use it as an accelerator in the bumps. It gets me driving forward.
post #15 of 22
Originally Posted by Yuki
The use of "the punch", as I know it ... is not a way to ski ... but a mechanism to break a bad habit.

After you get someone who has been "trailing" or leaving the pole behind after the plant, to use the punch, it does result in a quieter upper body.

You would never even pull it out of the bag if there was no reason to.
Yuki - I understand why but disagree with the method...

I had chronic hand problems... - quite simply the hands get the least direct feedback from the skis.... So my hands could wander around and I had no idea....unless I thought to look for them....

I spent YEARS learning to hold them in a suitable place (more or less)....

Why LEARN to PUNCH & then LEARN not to? If HH wants to attack learning unnecessary movement patterns in PSIA here would be a perfect example...

My hands were variously described as "skiing like a frightened rabbit" aka "skiing like a sick kangaroo" then "hands in pockets"(after I learnt to give up kangaroo phase)... etc etc..

The solution to my hand problems was simple (I did NOT say easy)....
I simply had to PRACTICE skiing with hands in good positions...
You have no idea how many times my instructor said "Hands" (it ended up that short - nothing more - I knew the problem - he just had to remind me)... Even worse he would yell it as we skied.... and we had hand signals that meant "hands" as well (Him reaching his forward)....
Every time I got too much weight on that inside ski I got "well you dropped that hand back & then you get rotated that way & then your weight is on that ski" etc etc etc... I swear almost everytime I came to grief my hands were to blame... Everytime I did not like turns my hands were the culprit... everytime terrain was difficult it would be easier if I just kept those hands where they needed to be.... (I'm sure it was not really like that - but at times it felt like it.... I was sure if he asked what went wrong I could have faked knowing by saying "oh my hands were back" & got a pass mark!)
post #16 of 22
Pole Plants? Pole Plants?! I don't do no Schtinking pole plants! We don't need no pole plants!

Maybe I have a little arthy-ritus since that last wrist break, or maybe the speed differential between me and the slope is too high, or both could be true.
post #17 of 22
A pole touch with a gentle wrist snap allows the hand to stay relatively in the position you are trying to maintain.
In a blocking pole plant, the wrist still snaps but only after you have used the anchoring effect of such a hard pole plant.
Punching that hand forward might have been a way to break an old habit. By tasking you to over do it you just might do it just enough.
post #18 of 22
Many years ago I used that exact term (punch) to fix a bad habit I had. As an exercise to cure the trailing arm syndrome I've found it works very well.
These days I use Kneale's "up and over" description.
Lately I've been using a variation of the "Schlopy" drill (from the USSCA CD) that I call the "Half Schlopy". It consists of the raised arm half of the Schlopy drill and is done with poles in hand. Right after the pole plant/touch the arm is raised up and forward (down the hill). It's part of a slalom progression I'm using of double pole plants to promote correct outside arm gate clearing.
Regarding "plant" v "touch".
A blocking plant is pretty much that (a plant) and is useful in a number of situations.
PSIA talks about the "touch" at "the top of the up". Harald Harb calls the PSIA thing a "rising pole plant". While it's rarely a true "plant" I certainly like the accuracy of his description better.
post #19 of 22


There are many ways to get things done. The way people explain what they do can be hard to understand. It would help alot to see it happen ie. watch.

My pole plant works very well for me. I agree that movement of the hands and arms can be disruptive. Quiet upper body is important for economy of motion. I have some issues there but I am not so sure they are due to my pole plant.

A dynamic pole plant in bumps and woods and tight turns in general makes a difference as far as I am concerned.
post #20 of 22
The easy way is to just keep both hands in view. If they are at the edge of your vision, you are not causing problems with your hands, and you can concentrate on other things.

post #21 of 22

Punch pole plant

Dropping the inside hand when running gates was a longtime bad habit. I don't really agree with "punching" however. It would "disconnect" me (Nolo-ism). I use "be pole ready" as my key especially in really steep terrain and of course moguls. Makes you pole/aware and sets yourself up for next turn.
post #22 of 22
I just use a combination of the last 2 ideas...

Hands have to be in vision all the time - or else I have no idea where they are....

Poles - ALWAYS moving.... if they keep swinging then it is a great timing aid & reminds me that I must also keep moving... NOTHING static...
When the pole arrives so must the turn be there.... so I know where I am aiming to get to....
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