EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Shopping list for edge maintenance tools
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Shopping list for edge maintenance tools

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to get a few more tuning tools, specifically some items to maintain my edges. Skidoc tunes my skis and puts the proper bevels on (1 degree base, 3 degree side), and I typically touch them up after each day of skiing. I maintain my kids' skis, too, so I'm typically doing three pairs after each day of skiing. I've been using a FKS multituner and DMT stone, but I'm pondering a few more items. (I'm all set on waxing.)

Since I tune pretty often, I want stuff that will work well and last. But I don't want to spend an arm and a leg. Here's what I'm thinking (I'll probably place an order with angus7 if he's got what I need):

1. Two Moonflex diamond stones. Perhaps a 100 and a 400 grit?

2. SVST side beveler, 3 degrees, aluminum, with a spring clamp. (I'd freehand the base edges with a diamond stone.)

3. A stone to deburr. What would be better for this? A gummi or an Arkansas stone? Do I also need another stone for polishing, or is a 400 grit followed by one of these sufficient?

4. Cutting fluid: can I use vodka? If so, do I dilute it, or use it full strength? I don't want something messy or oily, since I often tune in the family room.

5. For now, I think I'll hold off on a bench and vise, though it would sure be nice to have them. Even with a discount, the sweet Holmenkol bench and a good vise are beyond my budget. How well does the Black and Decker Workmate do as a tuning bench?
post #2 of 26
1. If you already have a course DMT (100 grit), I would continue to use that and get a 200 and 600 Moonflex. This way you have a nice 3 stone progression. The 100 grit will get most of the rough nicks out and takes the most beating and then maybe next year you can get a 100 Moonflex.

2. That's what I use.

3. Arkansas stone for getting rid of the hanging burr. If you get the 600 Moonflex that will polish. You can also use the Arkansas for a final pass on the side edge.

4. I use the Secret Sauce but I know some people here use a 50/50 denatured alcohol and distilled water solution. Both are not expensive.

5. I use Holmenkol stuff so I am not sure about the B&D bench.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
thanks, Scalce. I figured you'd be the first to answer a tuning question.

the DMT stone I have now is the blue one, medium grit (325):

https://www.artechski.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=046

so I don't currently have a 100 grit stone. would a 100/400 Moonflex combo work well? with that and an Arkansas stone, would I be all set?
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
5. I use Holmenkol stuff so I am not sure about the B&D bench.
Scalce- How much did that Holmenkol bench set you back? I ask because on the Holmenkol web site the cheapest bench I could find was like $800 : .
post #5 of 26
I have a 400 or 600 (can't remember) moon flex but never use it. I only use the 100/200 with a 50/50 mix of Denatured Alcohol and water. I have a few small pieces of a panzor file that I use when I need to file the edges, which is not that often. I touch up the edges after every ski day, over 65 days a season. I have over 100 day's on my Volkl AX3's and there is still a ton of edge left. I also set the edge a 3 per a suggestion of a young SG/DH racer friend.

I think they have been stone ground maybe 3 or 4 times.

I use Dominator Hyperzoom wax. I did a friends skis last friday night the same as I do mine and she was impressed with the glide. She's a PSIAIII so she knows what she's looking for from a ski.

Tognar Tool Works is another good place to get your equipment.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
How well does the Black and Decker Workmate do as a tuning bench?
I have a 5' 2x4 clamped in the center of my Workmate with 4 small perpendicular blocks to support the skis. To lay the ski down flat (base up) and hold it still, the bindings are up against a block to stop the aft movement - since it is all/mostly in the rearward direction all I need to do is wrap a piece of Romex (common copper household electrical wiring) around the binding/block to hold it still. Putting the ski up on edge is done by slotting the blocks to allow for 1/2 the ski to stand up out of the block.

I am surprised how well this actually works. The Workmate is stable enough. I use small pieces of Romex to hold back the ski brakes too.

Works for me.
post #7 of 26
Strange... The Tognar site represents the blue as being 220 grit, green as only 600, and black as 150. I have the black stone and if it is only 220 I can't imagine a need for a 100 grit stone for any type of edge work. This one will already remove bevel on a ski edge.

Honestly the blue feels more like 325. If you already have a 325 then I'd go for a 600.
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
would a 100/400 Moonflex combo work well? with that and an Arkansas stone, would I be all set?
That works
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI
Scalce- How much did that Holmenkol bench set you back? I ask because on the Holmenkol web site the cheapest bench I could find was like $800 : .
http://www.holmenkol.us/cartproducts...ordshow=H20720

To do a item description search on the US site you have to drop the combo box down to "Product-Desc" because it defaults to SKU.

I think I paid $150 which was a steal.

If you call your local race rep from Holmenkol and are part of a race program he may give you a coupon code to get special pricing for some equipment.

I told him I am interested in joining a night league and he was happy to help out.

Not everything comes out to 50% off and I am not sure if the discount has changed.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity
I use Dominator Hyperzoom wax. I did a friends skis last friday night the same as I do mine and she was impressed with the glide. She's a PSIAIII so she knows what she's looking for from a ski.

Tognar Tool Works is another good place to get your equipment.
The Hyperzoom is definately the best non-fluoro universal wax I have tried and alot of others besides Max use it. The base renew is also pretty good.

Artech is also a good local tuning supply shop but Angus7 does have some good prices.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassnowboarder
Strange... The Tognar site represents the blue as being 220 grit, green as only 600, and black as 150. I have the black stone and if it is only 220 I can't imagine a need for a 100 grit stone for any type of edge work. This one will already remove bevel on a ski edge.

Honestly the blue feels more like 325. If you already have a 325 then I'd go for a 600.
The grits sometimes change from year to year and definately from one manufacturer to another.

Having the 100 grit helps take down burrs and if you do it religiously will limit the amount of filing you will have to do with a panzer or cross file.

It really does not take off that much material.

I use a 100-200-400-600 Moonflex progression but then again I am mentally insane when it comes to tuning equipment.

Everybody has a different tuning approach and as long as the edges are sharp you are all set.
post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by janesdad
I have a 5' 2x4 clamped in the center of my Workmate with 4 small perpendicular blocks to support the skis. To lay the ski down flat (base up) and hold it still, the bindings are up against a block to stop the aft movement - since it is all/mostly in the rearward direction all I need to do is wrap a piece of Romex (common copper household electrical wiring) around the binding/block to hold it still. Putting the ski up on edge is done by slotting the blocks to allow for 1/2 the ski to stand up out of the block.

I am surprised how well this actually works. The Workmate is stable enough. I use small pieces of Romex to hold back the ski brakes too.

Works for me.
that sounds really interesting. do you have any pictures of it? I'm trying to imagine the perpendicular pieces, but I can't quite picture how they work. does it work for skis of different sizes (i.e.,, with different binding lengths)? I tune my own skis and my kids' skis (and probably my kids' snowboards soon if they join the dark side ;-), so I would need something that could be used easily with skis and bindings of different sizes, and ideally for snowboards, too (though that one may be tough).

could you also use a ski vise on the B&D Workmate?
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI
Scalce- How much did that Holmenkol bench set you back? I ask because on the Holmenkol web site the cheapest bench I could find was like $800 : .
Terp, I think the one Scalce has goes for $300 on the website, but it sold for $150 at some point last year. There was some discussion of it here:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=23762&

The last I checked, the discount code that Scalce mentions gave 40% off, which would make the table $180.
post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassnowboarder
Honestly the blue feels more like 325. If you already have a 325 then I'd go for a 600.
for some of the rough spots on the base edges, the blue DMT doesn't seem to do the job completely. that's why I was thinking a 100/400 combo might work well. 100 to take down the really rough stuff, and 400 for the real sharpening.

I've been very happy with the Dominator Hyperzoom wax. That's all I use (the graphite version, usually).

Also very happy with Artech. Good prices and super fast shipping from NH to MA. But angus7 does indeed have some good prices on the Moonflex stones and SVST edge tools, so I thought I'd give him a try.

Does anyone out there use vodka instead of diluted denatured alcohol? Does it work just as well? Diluted or full strength?
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI
Scalce- How much did that Holmenkol bench set you back? I ask because on the Holmenkol web site the cheapest bench I could find was like $800.
I'm still waiting on the table I ordered over a month ago. Pez tells me that there's been a holdup in Germany. Let me know if you decide to order one. I'm curious as to what they'll say.

-T
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassnowboarder
Strange... The Tognar site represents the blue as being 220 grit, green as only 600, and black as 150. I have the black stone and if it is only 220 I can't imagine a need for a 100 grit stone for any type of edge work. This one will already remove bevel on a ski edge.

Honestly the blue feels more like 325. If you already have a 325 then I'd go for a 600.
There is a note on their web site that states that they list the grits on their gear so that they may be compared across different tools. That means they don't use the manufacturers grit numbers when they advertise the tools on their site (at least not usually). They do this so that you can compare a stone against a piece of sandpaper against a gummi, etc.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by real9999
I'm still waiting on the table I ordered over a month ago. Pez tells me that there's been a holdup in Germany. Let me know if you decide to order one. I'm curious as to what they'll say.

-T
I received my Holmenkol table in less than 2 weeks when I ordered it last Spring. It must be a seasonal timing thing since were in the thick of it right now.
post #18 of 26
Ok guys, Angus7, what's that? Can someone give me a clue?
post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity
Ok guys, Angus7, what's that? Can someone give me a clue?
nearly 1500 posts on this board and you don't know what an angus7 is? how can you claim to know anything at all about skiing?

all kidding aside: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=31148
post #20 of 26
Do you mean Dominator Zoom or Hyperzoom? The hyperzoom is a low fluro , very expensive, and they don't list a graphite version.
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
SMJ, it's probably the Dominator Zoom, but I don't recall offhand (I have it at home). Whatever I use, I don't think it's a flouro wax.

Update: I just checked on a website, and what I use is the Dominator Graphite Zoom wax, which is non-flouro. As you say, the HyperZoom is a low-flouro wax:

http://www.proformskiing.com/prod_wa...l.php?menu=800
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler
I received my Holmenkol table in less than 2 weeks when I ordered it last Spring. It must be a seasonal timing thing since were in the thick of it right now.
I was told it was a supplier issue to Holmenkol Germany, so the tables need to cross the pond before they can even ship from RI. But still, I placed my order back in October... and I'm starting to get a little irritated. Just about everything else I've ordered from Holmenkol/Uvex has arrived in good time though.

-T
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
nearly 1500 posts on this board and you don't know what an angus7 is? how can you claim to know anything at all about skiing?

all kidding aside: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=31148

Thanks, I knew I could count on someone here to tell me where to go...

I haven't visited that forum very often.

Thanks again, Max
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxwhizard
If Skidoc is tuning your skis why don't you ask him what to use. He would be very happy to help you. And you can trust his advice because unlike most of the folks responding to your post he is an expert with years of experience on the World Cup Circuit.

If you would like to consider some interesting maintenance only tools check out my website: http://www.alpineskituning.com

Especially read the theory page and send for my free tuning tips. Most folks posting you are making maintenance a lot harder than it needs to be.

Stay tuned-leave happy tracks,
Ray
Ray,

I have spoken to Mike many times and he is the only person that tunes my skis. I have also been in his shop and watched him tune skis on a few occassions. I trust his judgement but I think Teddy and him try to make tuning easy as possible so the average recreational skier can maintain there skis inbetween grinds. There is nothing wrong with this of course.

He told me to try the wax wizard and I currently use it while travelling or inbetween short skiing days. I also ordered some replacement sheets from you last year and you shipped them quickly to me.

Based on my experience corking or using your roller does not penetrate the base enough for very cold, aggressive, manmade snow.

I put on some Dominator Zoom wax using your waxwizard on both my wife's and my slaloms last night. I was too tired to hot wax all 4 pairs of Atomics so I skimped to see what would happen.

I skied today up at Mt Snow in 0 and negative temps and needless to say my bases are pretty abraded on the edges. Hopefully they are not burned beyond briging them back without a grind. These skis have not been tuned by Mike yet so the bases may not be able to absorb wax properly. I am going to use some Base Renew to see if it helps. My other Atomics that Mike put a cross hatch on still look like they had a grind yesterday but I hot wax these skis pretty religiously.

I really don't think there is a substitute for hot waxing.
post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
Hey Ray! Thanks for posting.

Skidoc is so swamped this time of year, but I have gotten some good tuning advice from him in the past (as have others, like Scalce, etc.). Most of what I'm looking at is based on his advice, with just a bit of elaboration.

btw, I love your Wax Wizard. works great for me. I don't think I've done a hot wax since I picked it up at the beginning of last season.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
Ray,

I have spoken to Mike many times and he is the only person that tunes my skis. I have also been in his shop and watched him tune skis on a few occassions. I trust his judgement but I think Teddy and him try to make tuning easy as possible so the average recreational skier can maintain there skis inbetween grinds. There is nothing wrong with this of course.

He told me to try the wax wizard and I currently use it while travelling or inbetween short skiing days. I also ordered some replacement sheets from you last year and you shipped them quickly to me.

Based on my experience corking or using your roller does not penetrate the base enough for very cold, aggressive, manmade snow.

I put on some Dominator Zoom wax using your waxwizard on both my wife's and my slaloms last night. I was too tired to hot wax all 4 pairs of Atomics so I skimped to see what would happen.

I skied today up at Mt Snow in 0 and negative temps and needless to say my bases are pretty abraded on the edges. Hopefully they are not burned beyond briging them back without a grind. These skis have not been tuned by Mike yet so the bases may not be able to absorb wax properly. I am going to use some Base Renew to see if it helps. My other Atomics that Mike put a cross hatch on still look like they had a grind yesterday but I hot wax these skis pretty religiously.

I really don't think there is a substitute for hot waxing.
I skied today too Scalce. I was at Wachusett and also got base burn near the inside edges. I had rubbed Zoom Graphite on and then dripped regular Zoom on last night and ironed it in.

Something about today's cold weather and dry snow maybe? Even piles of the fresh snow made by the guns didn't grab at all, and it wasn't just me with my fancy dancy wax job. Other people said the same thing. So it was obviously very dry snow.

I've never gotten base burn like this before either.
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