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Too old to become a "punk snowboarder"? - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpaul
Now you tell me! Good advice!
Convinced me too!
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarCube
Convinced me too!
Come on! No pain, no gain, right? If you're careful not to change edges while sideslipping, you'll be fine...

Lots of older people learn. I rode up the lift yesterday with a snowboarder who is 65. He rode faster than me and with good form. There was another guy who looked in his seventies if not older. I wish I had got a chance to talk to him or see him ride, he was in an old yellow one piece. The sport has only been around for twenty years, so those guys weren't young when they started.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Pierre, You need to make high level turns on a snowboard before you can say you are experiencing snowboard turns on skis. To me the difference is worth having extra gear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmot mb
they may sound the same when reading words but in real life it is completly different. It truly is something special to experiance.
How do you know I don't experience this type of feeling in skiing? I think the difference that I see between snowboarders who are carving short sweet arcs and skiers carving arcs is dynamic movement. While the snowboarder is balanced on one edge and must constantly move dynamically the skiers park and ride for part of the arc. This causes a slight disconnect or discontinuity in the feeling of ripping arc to arc. I have worked very hard to get that feeling because its just too cool. Its a feeling of solid power without work.
post #34 of 46
Part of the reason I have not learned to snowboard is a bad first attempt a few years ago. I am serious after an hour and a half I had not taken a lift and there was not enough advil in the bottle. I have a very stiff back and cannot take the face plant or the tailbone plant. The day was solid ice that I tried though.

Reason number two. There is no way in hell I could stay out of the bumps.
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
How do you know I don't experience this type of feeling in skiing?
I don't know how similar the feeling you experience is to snowboarding and you won't really know yourself until you can do both. It's probably pretty similar, though. JohnH implies that short carving skis do it for him and he doesn't bother with his carving board much anymore (and he can arc a snowboard). Certainly shaped skis have caused snowboarding to lose a lot of its appeal to people (like me) who are mostly into making turns (as opposed to doing tricks and getting air).
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
How do you know I don't experience this type of feeling in skiing? I think the difference that I see between snowboarders who are carving short sweet arcs and skiers carving arcs is dynamic movement. While the snowboarder is balanced on one edge and must constantly move dynamically the skiers park and ride for part of the arc. This causes a slight disconnect or discontinuity in the feeling of ripping arc to arc. I have worked very hard to get that feeling because its just too cool. Its a feeling of solid power without work.
I really don't want to be argumentative but I know you don't because I ski and board and know the differances. The feelings can't be the same. stance, edge pressure, momentum etc... You are correct the feelings may be close but not the same. It's like comparing a V-twin motor to a 4. Both are bikes but completly different feelings.

snowboarding is such a flow of movements IMO less disconnected than skiing. the edging arc portion is more so a park and ride feeling than in skiing. The edge hold is so much stronger, deeper and easier to hold that one can simply lay in the edge and sit back and enjoy it, unpressure and flow into the next turn. I find snowboarding easier but this allows one to enjoy the surroundings and flow with the hill.

This is possibly due to only having one board or edge to worry about and one must unweight the edge and roll the board into the next turn. From my lesson recently I learned this is what I should be doing on my skis as well.

But because I find snowboarding so easy I like skiing, it's more of a challenge, harder to get it right, far better mobility but I still like a good ride on a board.

I can only say give it a try a high level skier will take it up easily and almost painless.
post #37 of 46
Thread Starter 
Okay, say I decide to take a 1 day lesson, how many more days to become an Intermediate boarder, or at least to stop falling?
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpaul
Okay, say I decide to take a 1 day lesson, how many more days to become an Intermediate boarder, or at least to stop falling?
Well, I still fall but not the dreaded "catching the downhill edge" body slam because I don't sideslip much, my board's edges are usually more aligned with the direction of travel. I'm falling on heelside turns when I lean in too much, it doesn't hurt. I need a lesson.

I almost could make a turn the first day, was making turns and linking a few turns together the second day and working my way down blues on day three. I didn't really get too beat up. I don't think a beginning snowboarder is at a significantly greater risk of injury than an experienced skier.

You shouldn't try to snowboard all day. I only did a few hours the first couple times. Take a lesson, and another run or two if you are up to it. Don't be discouraged if you can't snowboard yet or even make a turn after the first day. That's not unusual. Try it another day or two before you give up. You'll be able to get around the mountain pretty soon .
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmot mb
I really don't want to be argumentative but I know you don't because I ski and board and know the differances. The feelings can't be the same. stance, edge pressure, momentum etc... You are correct the feelings may be close but not the same. It's like comparing a V-twin motor to a 4. Both are bikes but completly different feelings.
I will agree with you that the feelings will be slightly different because you have one board and are standing sideways and have a toe side and a heel side but the flow and feelings I am sure can generate the same type of feelings, board or skiing. In the rest of your post, below
Quote:
snowboarding is such a flow of movements IMO less disconnected than skiing. the edging arc portion is more so a park and ride feeling than in skiing. The edge hold is so much stronger, deeper and easier to hold that one can simply lay in the edge and sit back and enjoy it, unpressure and flow into the next turn. I find snowboarding easier but this allows one to enjoy the surroundings and flow with the hill.

This is possibly due to only having one board or edge to worry about and one must unweight the edge and roll the board into the next turn. From my lesson recently I learned this is what I should be doing on my skis as well.

But because I find snowboarding so easy I like skiing, it's more of a challenge, harder to get it right, far better mobility but I still like a good ride on a board.

I can only say give it a try a high level skier will take it up easily and almost painless.
you pretty much admit that you do not ski at a level to compare a solid arc to arc skiing to snowboarding. You futher explain snowboarding the way skiing at a high level feels and admit that this is the way it should be on skis as well.

In order for you argument to hold water you would have to assume that I do not ski up to that level. That level is high so in most cases you would be safe with that assumption but you are on Epicski. There is a much higher percentage of people on Epicski who post regularly and ski at that level than anywhere in the general public. Unless you have seen me ski or have read enough of my posts and understand my comprehension level its a crap shoot to make those assumptions.
post #40 of 46
I believe that Stowe used to give a "slam free guarantee" with private first time SB lessons (can someone verify). I tell my older students that we will mimick that philosophy. If you take a private lesson and tell your instructor that you do not want to fall (ask for a mature instructor) they can accomodate. If you are patient enough to keep practicing the basics before you move on, you do not have to fall. I have taught people into their 70's with no problems. I actually have more problems with hyper kids who have no patience and want to straight line everything (don't worry, the trees stop them).

Now that skis are getting shorter sidecuts (11m) turns can be very similar between the two. There will always be a different feel, but they can be similar.

What is up with all of these snowboard myths perpetuated on this thread?
1) Snowboards can go fast. Pick up a GS or Super-G board if that is what you are into.

2) A skier coming down in a death wedge "grooms" the slopes every bit as much as a snowboarder sideslipping.

3) Some skiers stand in the middle, snowboarders sit. I don't appreciate either for doing so.

4) There is no blindside turn. A heelside turn should be performed looking in the direction of travel over the shoulder. Skiers and snowboarders tend to look downhill while turning. It is poor riding and skiing to do so. It also causes a blindspot for both. The sideways stance on a snowboard just caters more to this bad habit. Imagine if you were riding a motorcycle and always looked straight even when you were turning. That sounds dumb, but so does looking straight down the hill when you are turning.

5) Moguls? Just because you have not seen a boarder do them well does not mean that they don't - I ride with at least 20 boarders that could go out and keep up with the skiers right now in moguls. In fact, back in the mid 90's, I entered a local ski mogul comp (with a field of 35 in my bracket) and showed up on a board. Everyone laughed when I showed up at the top. I heard all sorts of negative comments. I did not listen to the comments. I did listen to all of the boos when I was on the podium though. Their misunderstanding of what a board can do in the bumps was not my problem.

My feeling is this: If you truly know what is going on with your skis when you are turning, the switch to a snowboard should not be that hard. The most competent skiers that I know have tried boarding with great success because the equipment works the same way. It takes slightly different movements to make it work the same way, but once you learn them, you should do just fine.
post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpaul
Okay, say I decide to take a 1 day lesson, how many more days to become an Intermediate boarder, or at least to stop falling?
I recently took three lessons (three Saturdays in a row). by the end of the first day, I was able to link some turns, though not particularly gracefully, esp. on the toe side.

by the end of the second day, I could link turns reasonably well in both directions, but was spending too much time in the backseat.

by the end of the third day, I had mostly solved my backseat problems (thanks to a useful tip from the instructor that I'll also be able to put to use in skiing) and was on an advanced green/low blue trail, going reasonably fast, linking turns, and staying in control. not quite intermediate, perhaps, but getting closer.

that third day I really only had one or two falls that hurt.

it was a LOT of fun. if I weren't already a skier, I might be a boarder. ideally I'd have two sets of gear, for the fatigue factor, the variety, and b/c my kids have switched over to boarding (it's going to be a bit slow going back to the green runs on my skis while they keep learning to board after we got them onto some of the blacks last season on skis). but right now I can't justify putting down the cash for it.
post #42 of 46
P.S. Not only was it a blast to learn to board, but I got a free season pass out of it, too.
post #43 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
I recently took three lessons (three Saturdays in a row). by the end of the first day, I was able to link some turns, though not particularly gracefully, esp. on the toe side.

by the end of the second day, I could link turns reasonably well in both directions, but was spending too much time in the backseat.

by the end of the third day, I had mostly solved my backseat problems (thanks to a useful tip from the instructor that I'll also be able to put to use in skiing) and was on an advanced green/low blue trail, going reasonably fast, linking turns, and staying in control. not quite intermediate, perhaps, but getting closer.

that third day I really only had one or two falls that hurt.

it was a LOT of fun. if I weren't already a skier, I might be a boarder. ideally I'd have two sets of gear, for the fatigue factor, the variety, and b/c my kids have switched over to boarding (it's going to be a bit slow going back to the green runs on my skis while they keep learning to board after we got them onto some of the blacks last season on skis). but right now I can't justify putting down the cash for it.
What was this tip, I can use all I can get, especially to avoid knee pains.
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpaul
What was this tip, I can use all I can get, especially to avoid knee pains.
nothing earth shattering, and something that I had been told and used in skiing before. but for some reason it really hit home and worked especially well in boarding, probably b/c I'm such a beginner.

the tip was simply to look (and point, keeping your arm out) in the direction of the turn you want to make, turning your head in that direction. the rest of the body, particularly the knees and feet, tend to follow.

example: if you're going in one particular direction, look and point to that side of the trail, not straight down the hill. when you want to start your turn, shift your gaze (and therefore weight) down the hill to initiate the turn. as soon as the turn initiates, look and point across to the other side of the hill to make the turn. and so on.

I hope this makes sense. I'm sure others can give a much better description of what I'm talking about. I'm most definitely not an instructor
post #45 of 46
Maybe if I was 20 again. I took a snowboard lesson last year and the next day when I woke up it felt like I was hit by a mack truck. Learning is hard and you get banged up. I hear once you get past the first few lessons things change but it was just too rough for me. I still have a twinge in my tailbone from falling backwards onto the icey hardpack. I don't think it helped that the instructor we had was a young guy who seemed a little high strung and he liked to yell a lot. There were lots of younger kids and teens and I was the only adult in the class. I felt very out of place. It is a totally different crowd and atmosphere than you find in skiing.
post #46 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidiver
...I hope this makes sense. ...
It does make sense. I teach this all of the time on both skis and board.

What does not make sense it why everytime I ask a person "when you are on a bike making a turn, where do you look?" Their answer is always something to the extent of "through the turn".

So why is it that you see about 70 - 85 % of skiers and snowboarders looking down the hill through their entire run instead of looking through their turns?
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