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Vail Announces $81 lift tickets - Page 2

post #31 of 53
Choke cough splutter...... $81 USD translates to $105 NZD - and our dollar here in NZ buys the same as a dollar in the US. I think I am not going to think about how much each lift pass costs me until I get home. I plan to go to Vail for maybe day next moth, but won't be doing any packages. So unless you can buy cheap passes in town I'll be one of those paying the full price, and it will hurt. Not all foreign visitors are on packages.

This year Treble Cone in NZ charged $89 for a lift ticket which I thought was horrendous, and I have heard a rumour it is going over $90 for next year. They were busier than ever, but I guess it helped that they were the only ones with any decent snow coverage.
post #32 of 53
Most Europeans wont even think about the cost of the lift ticket, there out there on Holiday to experience North American skiing however if you made it a topic of conversation they would probbaly raise an eyebrow or two.
I should of put the day price in The Arlberg to compare.
1 day high season €39.50 which is $48:00 3 euros less on Off-Season.
post #33 of 53
Just another point.


Why do lifts in the States need so many personnel to run them. When I was in Aspen back in December I counted 8 people at one lift. 2 people at the top 3 checking tickets, 2 handing you the chair , 1 working the lift.

In Austria you would have a Max of 3 people working on say a 6-8 man detach chair.

Why cant the ticket scanning be all automated or random checks made like in Switzerland. Why do you need people to hand you the chair, this is really a bizarre practice ?

Point is these staff must be costing a fortune & totally unecessary.

I ,ve been coming over from Europe to ski in the US for the last 25 years but the costs nowadays astronomic once in the resorts. Lift tickets , Accomodations even food compared to Austria (example).
post #34 of 53
this will increase its cachet among the pretentious. from a machiavellian perspective, good move.

The 48 Laws of Power (ed. Robt Greene) would approve.
post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
any chance the Average Vail Destination Skier doesn't mind the price of the ticket and, in fact, may find some satisfaction in the notion that higher prices may serve to keep the 'riff-raff' to a manageable minimum?


- R. Raff
eye'm witchoo.

- muggsy
post #36 of 53
stanton,

read the various ski patrol perspectives in the rope-ducking and skier licensing threads. and read the perspectives of those who want licensing.

you'll start to get the picture.

another unspoken reason: more "servants" to increase the faux-rich&powerful sensation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Just another point.

Why do lifts in the States need so many personnel to run them. When I was in Aspen back in December I counted 8 people at one lift. 2 people at the top 3 checking tickets, 2 handing you the chair , 1 working the lift.

In Austria you would have a Max of 3 people working on say a 6-8 man detach chair.

Why cant the ticket scanning be all automated or random checks made like in Switzerland. Why do you need people to hand you the chair, this is really a bizarre practice ?

Point is these staff must be costing a fortune & totally unecessary.

I ,ve been coming over from Europe to ski in the US for the last 25 years but the costs nowadays astronomic once in the resorts. Lift tickets , Accomodations even food compared to Austria (example).
post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Why cant the ticket scanning be all automated or random checks made like in Switzerland.
Breck tried the auto-scans a few years ago and they were a disaster. I know the technology has improved and last year some Breck folks went to Europe to see them operate and were impressed.

Quote:
Point is these staff must be costing a fortune & totally unecessary.
That staff makes about $9/hr (not a fortune) and they do a lot of other things that are totally necessary.

Reducing lift staff would not lower window prices.

Steve
post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
Breck tried the auto-scans a few years ago and they were a disaster. I know the technology has improved and last year some Breck folks went to Europe to see them operate and were impressed.


That staff makes about $9/hr (not a fortune) and they do a lot of other things that are totally necessary.

Reducing lift staff would not lower window prices.

Steve
Lifts & Snow are the same in Europe or the US or India or China wherever. Why does it take 8 people in the US to do the same job it takes 3 pople in Europe, please explain ?

Even with reduced stafff & saving your right I doubt if lift prices would be reduced but they should be. At $9 an hour it may not be much but added up its a hell of alot over a season.


Automated ticketing systems have been around for quite a few years in Europe but to be honest I like the Swiss system like in Verbier where they dont check tickets they just have random checks & if you get caught your Frog Marched down to the local police station to pay an enourmous fine & banned from the resort for days/month even life
post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Most Europeans wont even think about the cost of the lift ticket, there out there on Holiday to experience North American skiing however if you made it a topic of conversation they would probbaly raise an eyebrow or two.
I should of put the day price in The Arlberg to compare.
1 day high season €39.50 which is $48:00 3 euros less on Off-Season.
Actually €39.50 is $70.00 by today's rate (1.77 dollars/pound)..not much different than Vail..
post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal to colorado
Actually €39.50 is $70.00 by today's rate (1.77 dollars/pound)..not much different than Vail..
Look at he currency symbol € = Euro
post #41 of 53
oops..my mistake!!
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Lifts & Snow are the same in Europe or the US or India or China wherever. Why does it take 8 people in the US to do the same job it takes 3 pople in Europe, please explain ?
Lifts and snow are different at every resort. At Breck's E-chair (an old double) they have 3 lifties working the lift all the time. Yesterday they had 3 lifties working the Rocky Mountain (High speed quad). At some of the other lifts they might have eight people. Breck scans for more reasons that just to keep people honest. The information is computerized and used for all sorts of things. Maybe Europe doesn't care about such information.

Steve
post #43 of 53
Everthing in Major resorts in Europe is computerised & the data is uded for all kind of purposes. Automatic barrier scanners are well tested and work fine and even catch fraudulent users with timers.

Still dont understand why a 6man detach chair in US need twice the amout of people or more as the same lift in Europe.

I read a report somewhere that when it comes to snowmaking over 70% of snowmaking in Europe is fully computerised wheere as in the US its less than 10% . I ,ll try to find the article.
post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Automatic barrier scanners are well tested and work fine and even catch fraudulent users with timers.
As I said, they were tested at Breckenridge and they were a disaster. Why they don't use the new improved auto-scans now? I don't know. I'd guess that their operation works well as is. So, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also I'd guess that having extra staff is a relatively minor expense.

Quote:
Still dont understand why a 6man detach chair in US need twice the amout of people or more as the same lift in Europe.
Also keep in mind that Breck has 28 lifts and they only scan at five of them. The other 23 have minimal staff.

Again, the amount of lift staff has nothing to do with ticket prices. Vail Resort charges what they charge because people will pay it.

Steve
post #45 of 53
$81 stinks for a lift ticket ANYWHERE.

my Vail deal is a little better: Zero. I'll ski for FREE at Vail in 2 weeks.

To get one FREE ticket good at Vail, Beaver Creek, or Breck you need
to fly to Denver on United Airlines, but first you need to register your
UA freq flier number on their website. Doing a stopover in Denver (for
$55 aditional) on coast to coast flights also counts.
Details on the united.com website and the plane tix must also be
bought there online. Also this expires in midFebruary.

My voucher for a FREE Vail tix arrived yesterday by email !! Yahoo
post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
As I said, they were tested at Breckenridge and they were a disaster. Why they don't use the new improved auto-scans now? I don't know. I'd guess that their operation works well as is. So, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also I'd guess that having extra staff is a relatively minor expense.


Also keep in mind that Breck has 28 lifts and they only scan at five of them. The other 23 have minimal staff.

Again, the amount of lift staff has nothing to do with ticket prices. Vail Resort charges what they charge because people will pay it.

Steve
Im sure employee costs myst come into the economic/business plan somewhere.
People may pay it but there a hell of alot of people who cannot afford those kinds of rates & are basically excluded & not allowed to ski at so called "world class resorts" in the US.

I wonder if anyone has ever challenge the Vail Ski company on why there prices are so high compared to European resorts five times+ larger than Vail ?
post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Im sure employee costs myst come into the economic/business plan somewhere.
People may pay it but there a hell of alot of people who cannot afford those kinds of rates & are basically excluded & not allowed to ski at so called "world class resorts" in the US.

I wonder if anyone has ever challenge the Vail Ski company on why there prices are so high compared to European resorts five times+ larger than Vail ?
What makes you think Vail would listen anyway?? Vail bashing has been going on a long, long time..The place has been packed this season..even during the week..(120" base on top doesn't hurt either)


And from what I have garnered talking with people from all different nationalities when on the hill at Vail, some who come every year..Vail is "world class" why would people come from Austria, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland etc year in and year out if the skiing wasn't "world class"?? They rave about the snow quality, sunshine, wide runs, powder, lift line management etc

No one complains it is too small..in fact most say how large it is

Vote with your own pocket book..this is the best way..there are plenty of other places to ski/ride if you don't want to pay the walk up price.

And all of this speculation about ski area opps on this thread is pretty meaningless unless you are actually involved in the day to day running of the infrastructure

We all agree that $81 lift tix suck..so get with a plan "B" to circumvent this. There are deals out there (the "economically disadvantaged" locals get their ski time in for sure), or skip Vail entirely and be happy


Actually I prefer Copper, but Vail/BC are closer to Gypsum
post #48 of 53
Here is an article from one of your own newspapers.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...s-skiing_x.htm
post #49 of 53
the fact that hidden deals exist is pretty irrelevant. Vail prices its lift tickets with rich poseurs in mind. people who would brag about skiing somewhere that the lift tix are outrageous.

people who would love Dear Valet. or other robotic places where all sense of outdoors is removed.

Vail signifies everything that is wrong with America. one probably can see more W'04 and Bush/Cheney stickers per-capita/per-vehicle in Vail than elsewhere. :thumbsdown:
post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanton
Why do lifts in the States need so many personnel to run them. When I was in Aspen back in December I counted 8 people at one lift. 2 people at the top 3 checking tickets, 2 handing you the chair , 1 working the lift.
We (Copper) doesn't ever staff 8 people at a lift, but you're right that in the US we generally have a lot more people than in Europe. Ironically, I know Snowmass was trying out an automated gate last year, but for some reason they canceled the pilot program. I don't know what was wrong with it. I went to Big Sky once and I was impressed by their gates. They're pretty good.

Our staffing is generally pretty good. On most of our lifts we have two people - one at the top and one at the bottom. On our base area lifts we have more. Sometimes that's because it's a learner area and people need help getting on the lift, especially children. In other areas we have ticket scanners that also control the lift maze (something that simply doesn't exist in Europe and I would argue is a good thing) and also answer questions guests might have. Very rarely do we have more than 1 person at the top of the lift, and if you do see multiple people it's probably just be staff from somewhere else on the mountain trying to warm up. You're right that Aspen seems to have more, but it probably has something to do with the level of service they want to provide.

Copper, and the rest of the US, isn't perfect and I would love to see more automated systems. However, being the person who's worked on our automated gates I know just how hard it is to keep a system like that running. I suspect there are a lot of problems with the gates in Europe and that they often run in a standalone mode that doesn't actually authenticate the passes against the current database of allowed passes. It took us until this year to really work out the last remaining problems with our gates.
post #51 of 53
I ski alot with adaptive skiers and i would hate to see lifties replaced by automatic gates. they are there for more than scanning one's ticket.
post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn
Ironically, I know Snowmass was trying out an automated gate last year, but for some reason they canceled the pilot program.


You're right that Aspen seems to have more, but it probably has something to do with the level of service they want to provide.

Most of the base lifts in Aspen have the automated gates. The gates work really well if you have a pass with the RF chip. You don't have to take the pass out of your jacket and the gate reads the pass and opens the gate. The gates don't work very well with paper tickets. Paper tickets have to be inserted into a slot and after the paper ticket get soft this gets progressively more difficult. Eventually I think they will put chips on all multi day tickets, but for now they don't.

Aspen does seem to staff a lot of people on the beginner lifts were people need more assistance. Stanton was also there in early season, so they may have been training.
post #53 of 53
THAT IS INSANE
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