New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Ice and me...

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hey. Nice to meet you all. I'm a newcomer to these forums, and I'm sure that you've all met someone like me before: the young perfectionist skier who's willing to try anything inorder to improve his technique and make it into their high school ski team. From this alone, I'm sure you're all thinking that I have tons of questions to ask, and I DO! But that doesn't mean I'm going to ask them all at once (I can't do that to you guys ). So I'll start from this. I live up in Michigan, where most f the snow is hardpack manmade. And this usually means tons of ice patches. These ice patches really bother me since I can't seem to get a grip on them with my edges, no matter how much I get up on them or camber the ski (I got them tuned recently as well, so the edges are beveled and still fingernail cutting sharp). It always seems to skitter a bit before catching again. I'm thinking that this will prove to be a problem in the future, since I'll have to take the time and effort to re-adjust my turn, losing precious seconds. Anyone have an insight to this?
post #2 of 20
Who is Carving: Perception vs. Reality
Carving On Ice: Technique or Gear or What?
I need to learn to carve at the top of my turns, any suggestions?
Please, Help Me Stop Tipping!
"NEW School" v "OLD School"???

I keep habitually posting the above 5 or so threads because they are probably some of the best "carving based" threads in this forum. They should be able to answer your questions from carving on ice, to proper technique for a traditional hip-angulated turn. Specifically read the Carving on Ice thread - you will have most of you questions answered there.

Later

GREG

BTW, welcome to Epic. Your type does come around here often. I would be happy to help you out if you need any advice. PM me with your questions or post them publicly.
post #3 of 20
Here is another good thread. Skiing the slow line fast"
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...ow+line+f ast
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
This is some great info guys. It saves alot of time and extra posts. One thing that came up though was the mention of equipment, skis in particular. I have a pair of almost brand new Atomic SX7's. These are the only kind of skis that I have ever skied before except rentals (only been skiing a little more than a year. Doesn't give me much time to use anything else). I've always assumed that these were pretty good on slalom and GS (what I race) while at the same time being a great all mountain ski. The issue of ice got me thinking. What do you guys think of them?
post #5 of 20
If you've been skiing for a little more than a year, taking up racing right now is probably one of the worse thing that could happen to your skiing (sorry ). You must crawl before you can walk, let alone run (or try to run faster than other guys). Great freeskiing is, 99% of the time, what makes great racers: you simply cannot expect to learn how to include race course tactics if you don't have freeskiing tactics nailed down. You gotta be slope savy if you catch a rut going fast in a gs course... Now I haven't seen you ski, and a lot of people catch "it" quite fast, but you gotta put some mileage under your belt before trying your hand at driving a Ferrari ina tight chicane... same thing applies to skiing.

With that in mind: learn to play in the bumps, in the trees; learn to jump; learn to play with your skis, to get out of them any turn shape you want. Being able to adapt to different conditions is the key to beign a good all-around skiier (and racer): I have a dvd at home where Genevieve Simard, a member of the Canadian ski team, says that she didn't start running gates seriously before she was twelve. What did she do before? Jump cliffs and ski the hardest, meanest slopes possible with her club buddies. Now, she isn't the best girl on the circuit, but she still skies like
mere mortals can only dream to ski...

With that said, having race coaching will greatly help you since it'll be more likely to be tailored to your needs, but at the same time, even time with a competent instructor (emphasis on competent here) will be very valuable to you. You simply cannot learn (fast) from a book or website: you need feedback and direction at this stage in your skiing career. Focus on getting the freeskiing skills, then you'll be able to focus on applying them in the race course.
post #6 of 20

ice and equipment

Your edges may be sharp but your skis may be the problem.

Recreational skiers all dread "ice"/hardpack/; racers live on it.

If you jam a hard turn on the hard pack and you skis start the chatter and dance routine, despite being sharp, that may be a big part of the problem.

That's the short version .... but common with "ice problems".
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkim890
This is some great info guys. It saves alot of time and extra posts. One thing that came up though was the mention of equipment, skis in particular. I have a pair of almost brand new Atomic SX7's. These are the only kind of skis that I have ever skied before except rentals (only been skiing a little more than a year. Doesn't give me much time to use anything else). I've always assumed that these were pretty good on slalom and GS (what I race) while at the same time being a great all mountain ski. The issue of ice got me thinking. What do you guys think of them?
I think the SX7s are part of the problem on ice. So long as you are carving turns, you should try an SX11 and see how much better it is on ice.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Well the problem with the SX11's are that their prices are sky high. And even if my parents could afford them, they still wouldn't buy them since I agreed to only have one pair. And besides, I need them to be good slalom or GS racing skis as well.

As for the ice problem, some random guy I was riding with on the lift today said that he had seen me practicing with all the other ski teams, and asked why I was skidding so much. I told him I didn't know what he was talking about, unless he meant the ice. He didn't, then told me that I was skidding at the start of every single turn because it looked like I was using torsion. I asked him what was wrong with that, since my instructors had said that the amount of torsion I had used was fine. Then I realized that the skidding I was probably doing at the beginning of each turn was making me slip on the first place, and I told him that. He suggested I start rolling from edge to edge instead. So I did, and it felt great! I've never gone as fast, nor have I had such a smooth ride. And the skidding on ice has been reduced dramatically (though not enough that it's not a problem anymore, but I can adapt soon). Something that bothers me was that another guy told me that he had been watching me as well, and noted how I had improved so dramtically. I thanked him, and told him how I had gotten so much better. Turns out he's the coach of a nearby rival school's ski team. He gives me some advice and tells me that I shouldn't be leaning foward so much on my ski, and instead, balance the weight evenly over the entire length of the foot, the "sweet spot", so that I can use the entire length of the ski to turn. This didn't just apply to ice, but to all sorts of snow. I was kinda reluctant to try it at first (for good reason), then when I did, it was a completely new feeling. And by that, I meant neither good nor bad. Just, wierd. See, for all this time, I've been leaning on the front of my skis so much that I find myself on tippy toe sometimes going through a turn. This technique felt really smooth, but I felt like I was going a lot slower. I just wasn't as exhilirating. And as for the comment on racers, I love hardpack (not as much as powder though, because it's such a rare thing around here) and will probably be loving ice as well as soon as I get the carving down, because they give me two of the things I love most in skiing: speed and agility (in this case, really deep carving). Dunno if this makes me a racer (not considering the skills) or not, but I'm guessing it's pretty close.

Whew. Comments or questions?
post #9 of 20
You're not a racer yet...
Read this one twice:
Who is Carving: Perception vs. Reality

Who is coaching you anyway? If a random coach who never skis with you can fix your skiing... why aren't your coaches doing this? See if your coach will do video of your skiing. It may be helpful and enlightening at the same time.

Later

GREG
post #10 of 20
Sounds like nobody is coaching him yet, and he needs to get good enough to get on the team in order to have a coach.

Jkim890,
Look at the shape of your skis. They are a LITTLE bit like an hour-glass. Take a piece of cardboard and cut out the sides so that it has an hour glass shape like your skis, but more exagerated.... )( . Now lay it flat on a the floor. See the edge forms part of a circle. Tip it a little to one side. With the cardboard straight, the middel of the cardboard ski doesn't touch the floor, but push the cardboard ski into a curve and the edge touches the floor and forms part of a smaller circle. If it were a knife it would cut the foor in a circle. Tip it more, press it al little more and the circle it would cut becomes smaller. To ski you tip the ski, press it to the snow so that the embedded knife (your sharp edge) cuts a curve. Keep working at that, and you should get better. Where ever it slips sideways instead of cutting in its circle is where you need more downforce. Try to "feel" the whole ski as though it were your foot, and stop skidding. Until you can carve well, you may not enjoy an SX11 anyway; it really doesn't like to skid.
post #11 of 20
You don't say how old you are; Freshman, Sophomore???

If you goal is to make the HS team, look at the reality of getting to where you want to be.

Does you local hill have a race program? If it does, you can participate at some level. Generally, you don't have to "make the team" .... you just have to want to be there. Usually there is a development team, learning fundamentals, working on general technique and running some gates. If you are a bit older, you may not "fit in" with this group but .... you can train with the "regular team". You may (or may not), elect to go on the weekend USSA races with them but the simple fact is that participating at some level with the ability to run gates you will gain and perhaps in your junior or senior years be up to the HS racing. Usually the kids who were working both USSA and the HS ... were kicking ass in the HS league where the competition was not as stiff.

If you really want to learn, stick your ego in your back pocket and train with a regular team to get where you want to be. It will tough being at the tail end of the pecking order, but suck it up and get what you can out of it.
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
Well the main reason why I'm joining the ski team is that I thought that joining a sports team would be a great way to get that last gym credit while clearing up space for academics. I'm in the JV team right now, but I won't know for sure whether I'll be in the team or not till tryouts come. So yes, I do have a coach, but he's an old prune who is partially deaf ex-football coach and can barely ski himself. Relies on his assistant coach to do most of the work. I'm a sophmore by the way, and I'll probably not have the time to ski next year or any time afterwards. Yes, my local hill has a race program and I'm thinking about signing up. As for that ski bending thing, that's called cambering, right? Not too sure about the whole feel thing, as my skis are normally just chattering the whole time until recently, when I managed to start feeilng the whole boot press down into the snow for some reason (is this the feeling you're talking about?). And could you describe the SX11's a bit more? Are they good for slalom and GS, or are they just another pair of crappy all mountain skis?
post #13 of 20
Jkim, if you want to get some REAL advice and set straight on a few things (like Yuki said) stick your ego in your back pocket and PM me. Developing racers are a specialty of mine, but I will warn you, I am brutally honest... and it is probably not the kind of brutal honesty that the public forum is ready for.
Later
GREG
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Jkim, if you want to get some REAL advice and set straight on a few things (like Yuki said) stick your ego in your back pocket and PM me. Developing racers are a specialty of mine, but I will warn you, I am brutally honest... and it is probably not the kind of brutal honesty that the public forum is ready for.
Later
Amen.
post #15 of 20
Slalom race skis are for slalom races. GS race skis are for GS races.

I don't race, so maybe you should ingnore my advice. If I had to race both with one ski, I would probable use a one-level-below-real-race ski, like a Fischer WC SC or RC, depending on wether I wanted to lose badly at GS or lose badly at slalom.

Maybe an Atomic SL9 is your best bet; it's a slalom ski, but I hear it's quite versatile.

You really need to learn more skills before buying a full-on race ski, or an sx11 for that matter. You will learn faster with level-appropriate equipment.
post #16 of 20
Yeah what Ghost said - don't buy skis. Still waiting for that PM...
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Dude, clear up your PM quota. Can't shove a letter into a full mailbox.
post #18 of 20
Fixed.
post #19 of 20
jkim,
I'm in Michigan and know some coaches and instructors all over the state. Do a pm. Let me know where you are and I should be able to hook you up with someone that can help. Like one the the first responses, I'm betting that a focus on sound technique is needed most.
post #20 of 20
Sometimes you can learn better with a ski that does not have the best grip. You can be pretty hamfisted with top-ranked equipment, but you have to learn how to use a lesser ski. You will more easily develop sensitivity and control with a ski that has less grip.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home