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Salomon X2 Plugs

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
What is the fit like on the Salomon X2s (a few years back...no holes in the side..)? I know that all plugs are fairly snug but there are differences. An Atomic RaceTech XS would require little grinding for me and feels quite comfortable while a Rossi R2002 feels like my foot is being chewed by a dog.

Also, what is the forward lean like on the Salomons? Is it as extreme as the Rossis/Langes?

Is the Salomon X2 Soft stiffer than the Atomic RaceTech XS? Because I found that the flex on those Atomics is not stiff enough. Would the Salomon Medium flex be a better choice?

Are the Salomons riveted in the back?
post #2 of 29
The X2's are very low volume and the stiffness depends upon which cuff you go with- they go up to 150 flex but I find 130 perfect. yes- they are bolted in the back. Most likely you will need some grinding as they hardly ever fit off the rack- I would also say they are more Rossi-like tha Atomic-like.

The new ones with the holes in the side are just a bit softer laterally but its hard to notice. Most racers use the older mold.
post #3 of 29
Oh yea- the FL is fairly moderate- if you use the spoiler wedge you will get some more- I also use the front spoilers to beef up the flex a bit- they do soften a lot when its warm.
post #4 of 29
I've actually noticed in pictures that this year's Course x2 doesn't appear to have the honeycomb shell, but instead has a sticker to make it appear as though it does. Can anybody who has seen the 05-06 model in the shop or actually own it comfirm this?
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
An Atomic RaceTech XS would require little grinding for me and feels quite comfortable while a Rossi R2002 feels like my foot is being chewed by a dog.
Indeed. The last of the R2002 does not match human feet very well, especially in the forefoot. It has a weird fit.

I tried the Atomic in the S (Soft) flex and while it was a bit stiff for me (i weigh 155lbs.) the last was very anatomic IMO. The boot was snug in the heel/ankle area with a bit more room in the forefoot.

IMO, if you're looking for a race boot, i recommend the Atomic. Unfortunately, i can't tell you why i recommend it. I promised Jeff Bergeron i would not post this info without his permission. If you do not know, in his opinion, the RT is the best race boot on the planet. I really can't tell you but if you really want to know, ask Jeff. I hope he would give you (or anybody else who's interested) the same explanation. What i can tell you is that he convinced me. Too bad i did not take out the liner to look inside the shell b/c there lies the "secret". I can't understand why nobody asked Jeff why the RT is the best boot on the planet.

What i can tell you about the RT is that it has quite a bit of forward lean and a relatively thin liner. Another thing you may find interesting is that the RT Ti is more responsive than is ideal for most freeskiers.

Btw, in Jeff's opinion, the X2 is very narrow in the forefoot and does not hold the heel like the other plugs do.

What you can do is search Jeff's threads. they contain a lot of info about these boots. That info is IMO, priceless. And guess what? It's free
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takecontrol618
I've actually noticed in pictures that this year's Course x2 doesn't appear to have the honeycomb shell, but instead has a sticker to make it appear as though it does. Can anybody who has seen the 05-06 model in the shop or actually own it comfirm this?
I was out at Mont Ste. Anne this weekend and I did see this year's X2s with holes in the side. They do exist! Last season, I also saw a Canadian Team skier with X2s with decals to imitate the holes, so that model exists as well, but I suspect is only available to sponsored athletes.
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail99
The X2's are very low volume and the stiffness depends upon which cuff you go with- they go up to 150 flex but I find 130 perfect. yes- they are bolted in the back. Most likely you will need some grinding as they hardly ever fit off the rack- I would also say they are more Rossi-like tha Atomic-like.

The new ones with the holes in the side are just a bit softer laterally but its hard to notice. Most racers use the older mold.
150 flex...is that medium, and 130 soft?
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
Indeed. The last of the R2002 does not match human feet very well, especially in the forefoot. It has a weird fit.

I tried the Atomic in the S (Soft) flex and while it was a bit stiff for me (i weigh 155lbs.) the last was very anatomic IMO. The boot was snug in the heel/ankle area with a bit more room in the forefoot.

IMO, if you're looking for a race boot, i recommend the Atomic. Unfortunately, i can't tell you why i recommend it. I promised Jeff Bergeron i would not post this info without his permission. If you do not know, in his opinion, the RT is the best race boot on the planet. I really can't tell you but if you really want to know, ask Jeff. I hope he would give you (or anybody else who's interested) the same explanation. What i can tell you is that he convinced me. Too bad i did not take out the liner to look inside the shell b/c there lies the "secret". I can't understand why nobody asked Jeff why the RT is the best boot on the planet.

What i can tell you about the RT is that it has quite a bit of forward lean and a relatively thin liner. Another thing you may find interesting is that the RT Ti is more responsive than is ideal for most freeskiers.

Btw, in Jeff's opinion, the X2 is very narrow in the forefoot and does not hold the heel like the other plugs do.

What you can do is search Jeff's threads. they contain a lot of info about these boots. That info is IMO, priceless. And guess what? It's free
Now I must know! The suspense is killing me!

The Atomics do feel very nice on the feet but the Salomons remain an option for budgetary issues (ebay!).

How bad are the Salomons at holding the heel? It sounds like they are shaped exactly opposite to my foot...my heels are quite narrow and my forefoot is decently wide...I assume that if I get the boots in the right (small enough size) and do some grinding my heels should be okay anyway, no?
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
Now I must know! The suspense is killing me!

The Atomics do feel very nice on the feet but the Salomons remain an option for budgetary issues (ebay!).

How bad are the Salomons at holding the heel? It sounds like they are shaped exactly opposite to my foot...my heels are quite narrow and my forefoot is decently wide...I assume that if I get the boots in the right (small enough size) and do some grinding my heels should be okay anyway, no?
D(C),

Sorry, but i can't tell you. Why don't you ask JEff on his thread?

With regards to salomon, check out these links:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...hlight=Salomon

This is the 04/05 thread. post #140

AND

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=29323

The '06 thread. post #24

Hope this helps,
Jamie

Btw, your foot description matches the last of the RT very well IMO. The RT is narrow in the heel/ankle, has a low instep and a wider forefoot. It is very much like the XT except for the XT's narrower forefoot but it is more powerful than the boot i own.
post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
D(C),

Sorry, but i can't tell you. Why don't you ask JEff on his thread?

With regards to salomon, check out these links:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...hlight=Salomon

This is the 04/05 thread. post #140

AND

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=29323

The '06 thread. post #24

Hope this helps,
Jamie

Btw, your foot description matches the last of the RT very well IMO. The RT is narrow in the heel/ankle, has a low instep and a wider forefoot. It is very much like the XT except for the XT's narrower forefoot but it is more powerful than the boot i own.
Jamie,

Thanks so much for the info. For some reason, my searches have not led me to those posts...very useful. I have asked Jeff Bergeron some questions and maybe he can clear some things up...

Cheers,

Daniel
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 
From what I have read in other posts, the Salomons sound like just the worst plug boot out there. Does anyone have any stories of them working or should I just steer clear?

My main concern regards the heel fit. My current boots are Rossignol Power 9.1 Pros in 26 and I need the velcro heel inserts to keep my heel in place. But is it safe to assume that the heels on the X2s are only wide by plug boot standards?
post #12 of 29
I find it so amusing to hear people diss boots here- as if we all have the same feet and ski the same way. Clearly Salomon makes a world class race boot in the X2 as their results speak for themselves, as does Atomic, Lange, Nordica, etc.

If someone whines that the Salomon has a poor fit in the heel then they should not be in the boot or get it fitted- My X2's fit perfect. therefore they are the best boots in the world -IMO.

Be sensible and try them all on and see what works for you instead of asking for 10 million one-dimensional opinions.
post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail99
Be sensible and try them all on and see what works for you instead of asking for 10 million one-dimensional opinions.
That's a very good point but I do not have that option...
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
From what I have read in other posts, the Salomons sound like just the worst plug boot out there. Does anyone have any stories of them working or should I just steer clear?
I wear them. Its my favorite plug.

Keep in mind that my heel my whole foot is rather flat, fat, and reasonably tall at the instep.

I fit mine with only grinds because I wanted to be able to freeski in them. Its the M/M, but mine are more like the S/S after all the grinds in the lower. The lower affects flex as much as the cuff.

The heel is wide by plug boot standards, but very unlikely to be as loose as your Rossis are. I have to grind the heels out on the sides and at the very back anyway to make room for ugly feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vail99

If someone whines that the Salomon has a poor fit in the heel then they should not be in the boot or get it fitted- My X2's fit perfect. therefore they are the best boots in the world -IMO.

Be sensible and try them all on and see what works for you instead of asking for 10 million one-dimensional opinions.
Excellent advice.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
From what I have read in other posts, the Salomons sound like just the worst plug boot out there. Does anyone have any stories of them working or should I just steer clear?
I wear them. Its my favorite plug.

Keep in mind that my whole foot is rather flat, fat, and reasonably tall at the instep.

I fit mine with only grinds because I wanted to be able to freeski in them. Its the M/M, but mine are more like the S/S after all the grinds in the lower. The lower affects flex as much as the cuff.

The heel is very wide by plug boot standards, but very unlikely to be as loose as your Rossis are. I have to grind the heels out on the sides and at the very back anyway to make room for ugly feet.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
I was out at Mont Ste. Anne this weekend and I did see this year's X2s with holes in the side. They do exist! Last season, I also saw a Canadian Team skier with X2s with decals to imitate the holes, so that model exists as well, but I suspect is only available to sponsored athletes.
Last years, (and this) M/M boot were available with none of the silly holes. The S/S,or more specifically the soft lower had/have the holes.
post #17 of 29
I wear the x2 plug boot and I love it. I have had some work done to the boot, though. I came to this boot from the Pro Model boot (which has a much narrower heel). I do not have the best shaped foot for this boot, but I didn't have a whole lot of options when it came to finding reasonably priced plug boots. It was worth it to me to buy this boot and have it worked on. Fits great now, though I need to take up some more space in the heel yet.

It's a great boot. I will always buy this boot or the pro model boot. And if they ever stop making them, I'll buy as many used/old ones as I can so I can have them forever.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktrubin
I wear the x2 plug boot and I love it. I have had some work done to the boot, though. I came to this boot from the Pro Model boot (which has a much narrower heel).
If the Pro has a much narrower heel pocket, why did you choose the X2?
the most critical areas for performance in a boot are the instep, ankle and heel. Did you get the X2 for stiffer flex?
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
If the Pro has a much narrower heel pocket, why did you choose the X2?
the most critical areas for performance in a boot are the instep, ankle and heel. Did you get the X2 for stiffer flex?
For me personally I have to grind the living daylights out of the heels of all the other plugs, and this is a huge part of why I ski in an X2.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhothersall
Last years, (and this) M/M boot were available with none of the silly holes. The S/S,or more specifically the soft lower had/have the holes.
I bought the new x2 with these silly holes some months ago and it fits quite well. What I found out is, that they offer the boot with and without the honeycombs and they mill in manually on the orginal boot and just put .
There is an important disadvantage:
As they just put a transparent tape on the holes inside the shell, it is difficult to grind the boot here without destroying the tape and making the shell leaky.
Anyway my boots fit without grinding !
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
For me personally I have to grind the living daylights out of the heels of all the other plugs, and this is a huge part of why I ski in an X2.
I am glad it works for you.

The performance of these boots is amazing. I was told that on the inside it is a copy of the old RL1. But this not important b/c the RL1 was winning races before the RL11 came out and the X2 is winning races at the highest levels of skiing. So the weird fit does not affect performance negatively. In you case, it is even better.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
If the Pro has a much narrower heel pocket, why did you choose the X2?
the most critical areas for performance in a boot are the instep, ankle and heel. Did you get the X2 for stiffer flex?
Yup, that's exactly why (in addition to the fact that my pro models are just too small..a tight finger on the shell fit is just too close for comfort). However, I did not think that the X2 would be quite so roomy in the heel.. When I tried the boot on it felt very good...and I didn't notice the small amount of play in the heel until I put a good couple of days on them. It also had a lot to do with availability and price.

Having said all this...I still have yet to find a good comprimise (sp?) between fit and performance. My pro models were 27.5 (size 9.5 US) and my X2's are 28.0's. I wear an eleven street shoe....
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
I just got a pair for a very good price. Generally the boot seems fairly comfortable, athough some work had already been done prior to my ownership. What I notice is an extremely low instep and an extremely cramped toe box. As well, there is a serious pressure point at the back of both heels. I hope I can make these things work...
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktrubin
Yup, that's exactly why (in addition to the fact that my pro models are just too small..a tight finger on the shell fit is just too close for comfort). However, I did not think that the X2 would be quite so roomy in the heel.. When I tried the boot on it felt very good...and I didn't notice the small amount of play in the heel until I put a good couple of days on them. It also had a lot to do with availability and price.

Having said all this...I still have yet to find a good comprimise (sp?) between fit and performance. My pro models were 27.5 (size 9.5 US) and my X2's are 28.0's. I wear an eleven street shoe....
I would like to ask you one thing. Is the X2's heel pocket noticeably wider than the Pro? Is the difference visible if you look at the lower ?

IMO it is always a good idea to take a look at the interior shell contours before buying a boot (especially at the instep/ankle/heel area. The initial fit isn't always the best sign that things will be right after you break them in. Less so with plugs. They have much, much thinner liners and you can "feel" the plastic. But there can be surprises even with plugs.

I have the Tecnica Race R (true plug) and the heel width is almost similar to the XT, the predecessor. The Race R is more shaped in the heel/ankle than the XT (the heel pocket is more anatomic and the boot has ankle pockets. But if you try it on you won't notice a difference.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
I would like to ask you one thing. Is the X2's heel pocket noticeably wider than the Pro? Is the difference visible if you look at the lower ?
I agree with you there...but I went up in shell size so I began wondering if my mind was playing tricks on me....I thought that perhaps since I was going up a size in shell that the heel would progressively get "bigger". Hard tellin'. Boots are sooo difficult and the answer is to spend the money and get a good boot from a boot fitter that knows exactly what they're doing. But let's pretend you're in college and have no resources...then your own knowledge, a little bit of pain or "boot slop" tolerance may be all that's available.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktrubin
I agree with you there...but I went up in shell size so I began wondering if my mind was playing tricks on me....I thought that perhaps since I was going up a size in shell that the heel would progressively get "bigger". Hard tellin'. Boots are sooo difficult and the answer is to spend the money and get a good boot from a boot fitter that knows exactly what they're doing. But let's pretend you're in college and have no resources...then your own knowledge, a little bit of pain or "boot slop" tolerance may be all that's available.
If you add some firm padding to the heel pocket, this will definitely improve the fit of the X2. If i were in your place i would definitely try to do it.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
I just got a pair for a very good price. Generally the boot seems fairly comfortable, athough some work had already been done prior to my ownership. What I notice is an extremely low instep and an extremely cramped toe box. As well, there is a serious pressure point at the back of both heels. I hope I can make these things work...
I guess Jeff Bergeron's description of the fit of the X2 was accurate. He definitely knows his stuff!
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
I just got a pair for a very good price. Generally the boot seems fairly comfortable, athough some work had already been done prior to my ownership. What I notice is an extremely low instep and an extremely cramped toe box. As well, there is a serious pressure point at the back of both heels. I hope I can make these things work...
I hope you can make them work for you. Try to see a very good bootfitter. This is especially important with plug boot IMO. If you do not get the fit right, your feet will hurt a lot (or the boot will be loose).

One of the reasons i decided not to use the Race R was the fit. It was very narrow, even in the forefoot. I decided to use the XT (which has similar heel fit and only a narrow forefoot ).

btw, the XT has a very low instep, too. Did you consider the XT? It is very cheap.
The choice is the most important factor IMO.
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw
I hope you can make them work for you. Try to see a very good bootfitter. This is especially important with plug boot IMO. If you do not get the fit right, your feet will hurt a lot (or the boot will be loose).

One of the reasons i decided not to use the Race R was the fit. It was very narrow, even in the forefoot. I decided to use the XT (which has similar heel fit and only a narrow forefoot ).

btw, the XT has a very low instep, too. Did you consider the XT? It is very cheap.
The choice is the most important factor IMO.
I paid $20...if it works it works, if not I'll just use my Rossi 9.1 Pros, which seem to fit fairly well.
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