EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Cavalier attitude towards Injury?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cavalier attitude towards Injury?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was thinking about something the other day, so I wanted to gather some opinions.

Has the increase in availability of trauma services and the strides in orthopedics created a kind of "cavalier" attitude towards injury among non-professional athletes such as ourselves?

Especially in skiing, injuries that 50 years ago would have been life-threatening or even permanently crippling have now become almost a rite of passage.

Do you think we would be less cavalier about the possibility of injury if we knew that no help would be readily available or that such an injury might result in the loss of a limb? Or do you think this has no effect on the pursuit of "dangerous" or even "extreme" sports, where athletes count their screws and plates as badges of honor?

Opinions?
post #2 of 24
There might be a bit of machismo in the younger male generation. Especially when they see these ski flicks or even other videos with dirtbikes and snomobiles doing insane jumps. They don't see the aftermath of some of these wrecks and the real pain that is associated with a major crash. When you are young you don't always consider the ramifications of dropping a 60' cliff or jumping a dirtbike over a 120' gap. I know my brother has done serious damage to his knees and shoulders from jumping his dirtbike. The older he gets the less risk he takes. I guess it's learning the hard way. There's always going to be people who feel they have to prove themselves by taking risks. Some just are willing to take bigger risks than others. They either get really good at doing it or give it up after they've broken a few bones. The ones that break the bones and continue to do it are the ones testing Darwin's theroy of evolution.
post #3 of 24
Frau,
Quote:
Do you think we would be less cavalier about the possibility of injury if we knew that no help would be readily available or that such an injury might result in the loss of a limb? Or do you think this has no effect on the pursuit of "dangerous" or even "extreme" sports, where athletes count their screws and plates as badges of honor?
I'm not so shure a lot of thinking really goes into it. From what I've seen, the people involved are mostly young and the fact that something could happed to them doing these activities never enters their minds until---
and afterwards it's "look at this dude, that cliff did that to me"
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRAU
Has the increase in availability of trauma services and the strides in orthopedics created a kind of "cavalier" attitude towards injury among non-professional athletes such as ourselves?
I doubt most people even give medical care a 2nd thought until they need the care. Hence, I doubt these strides have made any difference at all in terms of risk taking.
post #5 of 24
It's not like recovering from a serious injury or reconstructive surgery and going through the associated rehab is a walk in the park, no matter what the strides in science and medicine.

Not to mention, there were plenty of people who were adventurous and risked injury in years past when the rescue and medical help didn't exist. I remember seeing a wall mural in Chamonix that showed women in full ankle length skirts climbing ladders over crevasses. That was crazy.

As someone who's gone through several injuries, I think you develop the "cavalier attitude" as a defense mechanism. What else are you going to do - sit around and cry all day or give up and spend the rest of your life sitting on the sofa playing Nintendo? No - you focus on healing and get back to what you love.
post #6 of 24
If I'm understanding FRAU correctly, she wasn't talking about youthful attitudes. Young kids, especially young males, have always been brash and less than cognizant of the consequences of their actions. How aware of modern medical techniques and advances do you think your average 15 y.o. was in the 1940's? How about today? I think their level of awareness is equal. I also think it's very, very low!

Hopefully we can head off the inevitable direction this thread was going in, i.e., "youth breeds stupidity", and instead discuss the decisions and actions of higher risk sports participants in general.

I'm having trouble forming an opinion on this one. On the one hand, it made me immediately think of my father, who learned to ski at the age of 42 after his 5th knee operation: 4 'scopes starting in 1968, when a tear of the meniscus was "repaired" by removing the injured cartilage. Due to this, he has almost no cartilage in his right knee. 5th operation was an ACL reconstruction. Then he learned to ski, against the advice of his ortho. His reasoning was, "I'm going to need a total knee replacement at some point anyway, I might as well experience the benefits of this ski thing while I still can." Smart or stupid, I don't know, nor do I care -- I've been able to ski with my Dad for a long time now, it was his choice, and I'm glad he made it.

On the other hand, anyone who skied in the past was (or should have been) aware of the risks involved due to the equipment alone. Do more people ski today because the bindings release? I don't know. If anything, I think medical advances have opened risk sports up to a very small % of people who otherwise would not have participated.

There has always been a certain type of personality who would do whatever the pleased, consequences be damned. How many instructors have (and certainly still do) known colleagues that were on snow without health insurance? For the full-timers, I think a lot of us have. That type has always been willing to chase an adrenaline high.

Not to hijack the thread, but do you think advances in equipment safety has had a bigger effect than the knowledge than "the Doc can handle this one no problem" on participation?
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13
I doubt most people even give medical care a 2nd thought until they need the care. Hence, I doubt these strides have made any difference at all in terms of risk taking.
Agreed. My ex broke both of his legs when he was skiing at age 6. Docs said it would be a miracle if he walked again, let alone skied. He still rips at Hunter and Windham, and never really considers getting hurt. His motivation? Keeps him young and he truly loves it.

Our daughter is a skier-now-boarder-now-considering-returning-to-be a skier. She did some ridiculous stunts in her high school days, all had to do with peer pressure. She knew she could get hurt as her then boyfriend wiped out in a competition and was laid up in the hospital for several days with a head injury. She continued to ride but is now thinking of returning to skiing. Her motivation? Honestly, I’m not sure. Kids are funny, and girls oh so hard to predict.
post #8 of 24
When I was a kid, it was pretty easy to get you ticket pulled or even banned for a year or life, for what now would be a minor infraction. The big change was liability limiting legislation that came out just about the time the Park and Pipe crowd came along. Another thing was the cost vs. the durabiltiy of gear. Today kids are MUCH richer than we were, gear costs are not appreciable greater, and the gear is far more durable. I bent or broke many skis dropping 30 -40', and running mid sized moguls at high speed. Last, there has been a culture shift, which emphasizes big jumps. I never felt that as a kid. 30' was considered a big jump and that was that.

Mark
post #9 of 24
dude, chicks dig scars.
post #10 of 24
I'm being much more cautious about injuries right now because in the last two years I have gotten seriously into another sport, running, and I am currently training for two major goal races for next spring and summer. Basically I can't afford to blow everything with some stupid skiing injury.

The other issue is the high cost of medical care. This past summer I dislocated my thumb in a fall while trail running. Although it was a relatively minor injury, didn't require surgery or anything, the hospital bill came to nearly $1,000. Luckily, I had insurance. People who are out there skiing and doing crazy things, especially the young 20-somethings who don't have insurance, are risking a lot more than just their health. People's lives are getting absolutely ruined by medical bills that they can't pay because they don't have insurance.
post #11 of 24
I think this is a good observation, and may be in the minority, when I say yes, I think the advancements in medical care have given people a more cavalier attitude toward injury. People say that kids don't give it a second thought, but they do give it a first thought. And if there were stories of "I broke my leg and ruptured my ACL, and I'll never walk again", they wouldn't try things that they will try when they hear stories of "I've broken both legs 4 times and had 3 ACL surguries and broke a vertibre in my back, but I'm still here doing it".

I would also bet that park and pipe tricks would be much more tame if medical care was not so good. I look at the kids doing some of that stuff and wonder how many bones they had to break to be that good. If those broken bones ended their skiing/boarding careers, they wouldn't be there to do those tricks, and others wouldn't take the risk of doing permanenet damage to attempt them.
post #12 of 24
I would think the only indiivudals who are that non-chalant about injuries are the younger/immature crowd who try to imitate the Ski Action flicks on tv all the while thinking they are invincible.

This type of individual falls into the same category as that guy who years ago set himself on fire with kerosene while trying to imitate the 'human flame' stunt he saw on the MTV Program Jackass.
post #13 of 24
I think a lot of people are dissapointed when they discover that the doc can't make everything betterlike on TV; they discover their leg/arm/knee/shoulder/wrist etc. will NEVER be the same again.

Still I don't think false expectations of modern medicine have anything to do with the cavalier attitude. It's just bravado. Once having decided to do it, you can cry about the injuries, and worry about them or be more positive.
post #14 of 24
I blew the living shit out of my left knee. Pretty much held together by skin. I then had an exceptionally experienced doctor who did an A+ job. I made a speedy recovery due to hard work and alot of pain. I ski harder now than I ever did. But there is no way in hell I would want to go through that again. I dont care how good the procedures are either. The recovery right after surgery was 100 times more painful than the initial injury. I do everything in my power to stay extremely strong and agile just so I have a better chance of not going through that again. It is the love for this sport that made me want to charge into my recovery. Plus the ex othopedic surgeon for the st louis rams was the exceptionaly experienced doctor who take care of my knee. I am sure his expertise helped out quite a bit, I dont even think about the left knee ever anymore.
post #15 of 24
You'll think about it when you're 45, huckingfellers. You're still young.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
You'll think about it when you're 45, huckingfellers. You're still young.
I was thinking that as soon as I hit enter to submit my reply Bonni . I have used and abused my body for a long time. I know I will definately have to pay something when I get older. I just stay as active as I can that way nothing sets up on me, lol. Don't want any seized motors here

But you are right Bonni I am still a young Buck, only a fresh 28 in January. Many more fun years to come. Hell I am just in the past year or so been able to afford some good fun and time for it ! Still got those beers coming
ma lady
post #17 of 24
Someone close to me seems to think it is almost inevitable that there is another knee surgery in the future yet the thought of it hasn't slowed her down one bit. I injured my knee when I was a runner in college and many years later when I first took up skiing I had some nagging thoughts about how my knee would hold up. Nothing has happened yet (knock on wood) but I know what is involved if something does and I'm prepared for it because I've seen so many people have successful recoveries who continue to do what they really love.
post #18 of 24
I do not look forward to injuries after one tibial avulsion of the ACL, one totally ripped ACL, and a tibia break all on my right leg.

2 surgeries and rehab is enough.

Not all injuries are from people doing stupid things.

My first blowout was playing football and my second was from skiing. The tibia break was from a ski shocking off at high speed.

If I blew it out a third time I would still ski if my wife and the Dr allowed it.
post #19 of 24
I think it varies from person-to-person. Everybody has a different threshold of risk. So people are willing to push it, others are not.

And sometimes...s__t happens!

And that's without adding alcohol or drugs!
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckingfellers
I was thinking that as soon as I hit enter to submit my reply Bonni . I have used and abused my body for a long time. I know I will definately have to pay something when I get older. I just stay as active as I can that way nothing sets up on me, lol. Don't want any seized motors here

But you are right Bonni I am still a young Buck, only a fresh 28 in January. Many more fun years to come. Hell I am just in the past year or so been able to afford some good fun and time for it ! Still got those beers coming
ma lady
That IS a great age. Old enough to have enough income to do fun things, and young enough to play hard.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
That IS a great age. Old enough to have enough income to do fun things, and young enough to play hard.
So true JohnH, indeed, must play hard while you can. Got to slow down some time. Unfortunately !
post #22 of 24
FRAU, not in my circles. None of us wants to get hurt. Except Tsavo who seems to enjoy PT way more than I think she should...

It's nice that if we do, though, there's help. Otherwise I couldn't ski with bong the bionic man...
post #23 of 24
Mr. Fellers,

Come to Summit County next week. I'll buy you those beers.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
Mr. Fellers,

Come to Summit County next week. I'll buy you those beers.
That would be sweet. Colorado planned a little later in the season for me. You have a bunch of fun though while your there. VT beers taste better
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Cavalier attitude towards Injury?