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Waiststeering "Spice"

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I finally got on snow and Sunday I felt like I had my legs back and could play with it.
I found that it blends into what I'd been working on with the overlap from one turn to the other. It reminds me of a NASTAR pamphlet that Pepi Steigler had out back when he was the "zero" pacesetter. He talked about something being like "spice". Some is good but too much is just as bad as none at all. It feels to me like a fine tuning move of something I've been doing anyway.
I also came to the conslusion that there is no static way to duplicate it. The idea that the CM is "what a body rotates around" applies in the vertical as well as horizontal. As I said in the Waiststeering thread "the earth rotates on it's axis as it tavels in it's orbit". The lack of friction at the ground makes it pretty much impossible to duplicate in a static mode (unless you could somehow suspend yourself by a string)
What I feel as the outside hip comes around, the inside one goes back and facilitates engaging the outside tip of the inside ski. It feels like a very clean completion/intitiation sequence/flow.
post #2 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLATZ
I finally got on snow and Sunday I felt like I had my legs back and could play with it.
I found that it blends into what I'd been working on with the overlap from one turn to the other. It reminds me of a NASTAR pamphlet that Pepi Steigler had out back when he was the "zero" pacesetter. He talked about something being like "spice". Some is good but too much is just as bad as none at all. It feels to me like a fine tuning move of something I've been doing anyway.
I also came to the conslusion that there is no static way to duplicate it. The idea that the CM is "what a body rotates around" applies in the vertical as well as horizontal. As I said in the Waiststeering thread "the earth rotates on it's axis as it tavels in it's orbit". The lack of friction at the ground makes it pretty much impossible to duplicate in a static mode (unless you could somehow suspend yourself by a string)
What I feel as the outside hip comes around, the inside one goes back and facilitates engaging the outside tip of the inside ski. It feels like a very clean completion/intitiation sequence/flow.
Well heck, we'll take that as a positive : Be sure to check out our new webiste :
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Is there a different link?
post #4 of 15

Spice conclusion

Quote:
It feels like a very clean completion/intitiation sequence/flow.
Hey Slatz,

Once people begin to realize this "spice"
of Waist Steering, I can only hope they
want to learn more. I maintain that
Waist Steering finishes a carving turn far
better than without it.

Because I don't believe you've seen our
Level 1 DVD, my assumption would be
that you are still upweighting and downweighting;
these are tough habits to break. Hip
angulation strangles the range of motion
for waist rotation.

Also, our stance is very specific; it's quite
different than the way most people ski, and
what others are teaching.
One's ability to find our stance (posture)
is based on:
1) learning it from Tommy/Gary/Rick
2) flexibility in the waist, hips and lower
back, derived from practicing Fu Style Tai Chi
(Chen Style or high-level Yang Style would suffice)

A very, very high-level U.S. race coach purchased
our DVD about two weeks ago. His first e-mail
said he didn't buy into the Tai Chi part of it, but
he wanted to see the DVD anyway.
Yesterday he called me, dare I say, raving about
the simple effectiveness of our progression, and
the fact that we've "gone a totally different direction"
with the Waist Steering movements. He hasn't
gotten on snow yet (New York), but he can't wait
to get out and work through the progression.
The guy sounded like he's totally behind us.

I'm sending him the beginner's Fu Style Tai Chi video today.
post #5 of 15

WS Cheat Sheet

Without viewing the DVD or spending some time with us our Level 1 handout is pretty much one dimensional but it will at least introduce one to the progression with some explanation.

Our website address is www.modernskiracing.com if the it still looks like the old site blow out your caching.

As Tommy mentioned to really get a handle on WS I would get the DVD, download the Handout and get Form 15 Tai Chi DVD. This will give anyone a basis to truly investigate what is proving to be legitimate system that is gaining acceptance on higher and higher levels (for good reason).

We are still working on putting our clinics together, the very poor snow start in the Wasatch has been a bit disappointing to all.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
What I was getting at is that it "adds flavor" but is not the meat and potatoes of the stew.
post #7 of 15

Too bad

I was really hoping you wouldn't post something
so "conclusive" when you've had no training at
all, and you've had virtually zero time to develop
Waist Steering for yourself.

I don't advocate Waist Steering for anything but
carving; and even then, it's just one of the
better arrows in the quiver.

But the reason you can only taste the spice
is because you're eatin' the wrong stew, dude.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
Sorry. Don't get testy. I was just explaining how it felt to me. I thought it produced some positive effect.
I just reread the Level I handout that Gary sent me awhile back (I couldn't find it on the new website)(Is Jeff Sadis still working with you guys? Say hi) It pretty much describes the things I felt. I didn't have enough room at Tyrol to do the "Scallop Turns".
TommyK quote:
"even then, it's just one of the
better arrows in the quiver."
Isn't this just another way of saying what I said? One of the arrows, not the bow?
Don't get me wrong, good skiing is made up of lots of good little bits and pieces. To someone with a 30 or 40 handicap it might be a 50% improvement but to some one with 20 FIS points it might only be .01 of a second (the difference between winning and second place) Both have value to the respective athlete.
BTW, at 62 I look around to see who it is that's being called "dude". It's for sure not me
post #9 of 15

Metaphors

Mr. Slattery,

Please accept my apologies for getting
testy. It's damn hard to be a pioneer--
especially in the ski industry where everyone
believes that every acre of territory has been
explored, mapped and developed. When
reputable industry people don't believe
that I discovered "the new world," I get
upset because I've spent countless hours
practicing "ancient Chinese secrets" and
applying them to our beloved sport.
(pioneer metaphor)

Reducing what I've done to spice in a stew
makes my blood boil. Maybe I should try
harder not to overreact; but if you live
on vegetables your whole life and then
get to taste beef broth, do you assume
that beefy flavor is just a spice? Could
there be more?
(food metaphor)

Ah yes, arrows in the quiver. If we are to
use this as a metaphor, certainly the bow
is the human body. Hip angulation and
up/down weighting are arrows. Skidding
for survival or speed check is an arrow.
I am a fine archer, one who has grown
up in the archery trade. My bow is much
stronger and more limber than most other
bows. And after practicing and successfully
hunting with every arrow out there, I have
crafted a very special arrow-- it flies
faster, safer and more accurately than
any arrow before it.

Gary Dranow was also a fine archer before
he met me. When I lent him my arrow, I showed
him how to nock it, how to aim it and how
to release it. Then we started working on
his bow (it was very stiff). The process
continues as I've shown him how to build
my special arrow, and how to continue
to develop his skills and make better his bow.
(belabored arrow metaphor)

Buy the video, Mr. Slattery. Work on this
stuff for a month and get back to me.
Behind that beefy flavor you tasted is
a bovine big enough to feed you for
a lifetime.
post #10 of 15
I just put in my order for the DVD. I just got back from Mammoth, where I spent 8 days on snow training and running gates for 6-7 hours a day. I don't think my waist (or much else) will be doing much steering for a while, but I look forward to playing around with the concept once I heal a little.

Even if I don't like the program, it can't be any more of a waste of money than that "Downhill Willie" DVD I got. Ouch, that was a bad movie. Makes "Aspen Extreme" seem like the "Usual Suspects".
post #11 of 15

You guys!

Good apology Tommy. Respect your ELDERS! How many times do I need to pound this into you

Playing with the metaphor. Yes, I was a very technical Archer who was stiff and therefore my release lead to many shots slightly off target.

What Tommy brought to me was not specifically a ski related technique. He talked to me about anatomy, Kinesiology, and power. He talked to me about movement. As I played with the "concepts" he presented me I found I had limitations in my body and I asked him how to overcome these limitations.

In his inscrutable style he tricked me into attending a Tai Chi class. I must admit in the first class I didn't get it - at all. But since I always stick with anything I start I kept coming back for 8 months now. I spend countless hours practicing seemingly easy movements. I learned more concepts about movement, breathing and balance. During this process, as I have said before, I immediately expanded my physical limitations on the snow and performed yet I was less than an infant in the dry land system, Tai Chi.

I must admit that I have had a rough summer. I have not been able to train anywhere near the level I had intended (broken neck). I did, however, stay with my Tai Chi by and large.

WS is a new movement pattern and is a bit more than just another arrow in ones quiver, it is the bow from where the arrows are released to their target. The proof of all of this should be in the winter as I come out with a body that has been softened and strengthened at the same time. It should be interesting how my body reacts to the Master courses I will be facing this year. Will I take a step back or a many steps forward? We shall see.

So here’s my perspective. WS is based on a new understanding of how one’s body works and then applying those principles to the sport of skiing. It is impossible to “get” WS if the basis of its movement patterns aren’t traced back to how the machine works and the only way I know of doing this – as of today, is through the study and growing understanding of Tai Chi.

Get the DVD and get the beginning level Tai Chi DVD. Then go online and read a little bit about Tai Chi before you start. Then and only then can WS begin to be integrated into your skiing.

If anybody wants some great links on Tai Chi to get a basic understanding of what it is, why it works, how to practice it, let me know, I’ll post them.
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Please do post the links. Thanks
I'm open to anything that will make my kids faster.
I'm out of here for Brule camp. I'll be back next week.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLATZ
Please do post the links. Thanks
I'm open to anything that will make my kids faster.
I'm out of here for Brule camp. I'll be back next week.
http://qi-journal.com/taiji.asp?-token.searchid=li%20ya%20xuan
http://www.edepot.com/taotaiji.html
http://www.8palm.com/chi

Park City opened today - TRAFFIC JAM. Good to get back on skis after the two week break from Colorado.
post #14 of 15

More links:

Try these:

http://www.taichidenver.com/philosophy.html

My teacher's grandfather, Fu Zhen Song
http://www.fustyle.org/chen.htm
My article in "Inside Kung Fu Magazine"
http://www.fustyle.org/IKF2.htm

Chen Xiaowang (Chen Style)
(Many consider this guy the best martial artist in the world)
http://www.kungfu4u.com/Videos/CXWDC2Modem.wmv
Chen Xiaowang (fast Tai Chi)
http://www.kungfu4u.com/Videos/CXWDC3Modem.wmv
http://www.kungfu4u.com/Videos/Wang%...pp%20Modem.wmv

Fa Jing Power
http://www.taijiworld.com/CLIPS/67.WMV

Yang ChengFu Story
http://www.geocities.com/meiyingsheng/story.html

How to practice Tai Chi Chuan properly (all apply to ski racing):
http://www.fustyle.org/yu2.htm
post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks
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