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stone used to de-tune ski edges

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
this should be an easy question but what type of soft stone do the shop techs use to detune a ski that's too sharp and where can i get one?
post #2 of 26
SM, its a gummi stone. Available anywhere you buy tuning equipment. For example here.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
muchos gracias Mantra amigo
post #4 of 26
For a quick tip or tail detune ... a small pebble from the parking area has always worked.
post #5 of 26
They are also aces for removing rust from your edges. I just got one in the mail today, along with the three-pack of DMT diamond stones, a mess of ptex, and a scraper burnisher, and I'm just getting warmed up.
post #6 of 26
I do not care for DMT's. there are mnay threads on thsi subject. Moonflex stones are far superior.
post #7 of 26
Like A-man said, I don't think the DMTs are even in the same league as the Moonflex.

Speaking of that, I got my first look at Swix's answer to the Moonflex stones tonight at the Ski Show.

They look better then their old Swix ones but still not as nice as the Moonflex ones.

The dummy at the booth gives me one and is like, "Here this is the new coarse one."

So I look at it and I'm like, "Are you sure?". So he checks it again and assures me it is.

Then I point out the number 400 on the face of the stone and he is like, o yeah. He then goes to offer me "team" prices which are higher then retail stores.

I had seen the guy at another show and he doesn't work for Swix but some ski trip company. They should find better people for trade shows.
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
Like A-man said, I don't think the DMTs are even in the same league as the Moonflex.
Dear Atomicman and Scalce.

I guess that's why Moonstones cost twice as much too. I don't always have the money to buy the best, but DMTs are better than what I did have which was just a mill bastard file which did nothing for rock hardened edges. Your loud smackdown of my purchase taught me nothing, but it did make me feel bad for having limited resources. Kudos to you gentlemen.
post #9 of 26
Can I hear a "Yo" for SVST diamond files!
post #10 of 26
The DMT stones will work fine. It's more like a Camry vs. Lexus thing IMHO. They will both accomplish what you want them to well enough.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Dear Atomicman and Scalce.

I guess that's why Moonstones cost twice as much too. I don't always have the money to buy the best, but DMTs are better than what I did have which was just a mill bastard file which did nothing for rock hardened edges. Your loud smackdown of my purchase taught me nothing, but it did make me feel bad for having limited resources. Kudos to you gentlemen.
Actually they cost twice as much because they will last you longer then a standard Swix or DMT. Also the cuts in the diamond face polish as well as cut so it it's not like comparing a Toyota to a Lexus.

Angus7 posted in the Buy section that he could get you Moonflex for cheaper then the online vendors. It was your decision not to take advantage of that offer.

We were telling the person that started the thread that he may be better off buying a better stone then the DMT ones since it will last more then twice as long and be a more versatile single stone purchase.

BTW a "loud smackdown" of your purchase or financial situation would be more like - DMT stones suck so get some Moonflex ones you poor bastard.

I'm sorry that you are being oversensitive.
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Dear Atomicman and Scalce.

I guess that's why Moonstones cost twice as much too. I don't always have the money to buy the best, but DMTs are better than what I did have which was just a mill bastard file which did nothing for rock hardened edges. Your loud smackdown of my purchase taught me nothing, but it did make me feel bad for having limited resources. Kudos to you gentlemen.
Don't sweat it. Make yourself (or buy) some oil-free cutting fluid, and go to town. I like Moonflex better too, but once upon a time I used DMT because that was all there was.

If you need info on the fluid let us know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scalce
Also the cuts in the diamond face polish as well as cut so it it's not like comparing a Toyota to a Lexus.
The diamond file should remove material and leave a surface finish appropriate to the grit number printed on it. I don't think my black moonflex does much polishing, but my white does. I haven't personally noticed them cutting/polishing any differently than other decent brands, they just last longer and clean better.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Can I hear a "Yo" for SVST diamond files!
SVST diamond files are superior to DMT but will only work on the side edge.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
I haven't personally noticed them cutting/polishing any differently than other decent brands, they just last longer and clean better.
That's sort of my take.
post #15 of 26
On second thought, I think this "polishing and cutting" crap was developed by the bafflespeakers at the US distributor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaface themselves:

The diamond is not covering the whole surface:DIAFACE® products show a design with circular pellets, as to ensure the greatest flexibility, and the design with half-moons of the MOONFLEX® cloth guarantees long life as well as a perfect cutting action and a uniform surface.


Any way you slice it (pun) diamond is going to cut steel. The surface finish quality will be inextricably related to the size of the diamond abrasive used. Sorma's design is definitely high quality and long lasting, but I doubt it does anything to the surface that you can't do with a good piece of sandpaper rigidly affixed to a surface. It just does it more conveniently and for a longer period of time.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalce
Actually they cost twice as much because they will last you longer then a standard Swix or DMT. Also the cuts in the diamond face polish as well as cut so it it's not like comparing a Toyota to a Lexus.

Angus7 posted in the Buy section that he could get you Moonflex for cheaper then the online vendors. It was your decision not to take advantage of that offer.

We were telling the person that started the thread that he may be better off buying a better stone then the DMT ones since it will last more then twice as long and be a more versatile single stone purchase.

BTW a "loud smackdown" of your purchase or financial situation would be more like - DMT stones suck so get some Moonflex ones you poor bastard.

I'm sorry that you are being oversensitive.
So Scalce, you assume that I read where to get Moonstones for less and chose not to? Then you call me a "poor bastard". Um....my parents would tend to disagree with the bastard part, but the poor part was exactly my point.

I don't read every thread posted; I didn't read the one by Angus7. I already knew that moonstones enjoyed the reputation of being better (easily presumable in fact from the fact they cost twice as much, as well as having read it on this site). However, as I said, money is a limiting factor for me, and I have a friend who's been tuning skis for twenty years and uses DMTs. If they give me trouble, I probably will try something else.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusbill
SVST diamond files are superior to DMT but will only work on the side edge.
Really? Can you expand on this? I posted a question earlier today regarding whether the moonflex stones would fit in the skiman base bevel guide. I suppose that would be a pretty stupid question if they only work on side edges...

I'm not sure why they would work on one and not the other though... :
post #18 of 26
I don't know where anyone got the idea the only work on side edges. this is just not true, they work fine. Secondly, I don't think DMT's work worth a damn. They were originally developed to sharpen knives I believe. The diamond material on the Moonflex is does a much better job (it seems to have a more abrasive & polishing quality)then the DMT's. I also used to use DMT because that is all there was. I was never happy with the results. Moonflex are far superior IMHO.

Volantaddict I'm with Scalce here. Sawreeeeeeee! We were just trying to be helpful, chill!
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
I don't know where anyone got the idea the only work on side edges. this is just not true, they work fine. Secondly, I don't think DMT's work worth a damn. They were originally developed to sharpen knives I believe. The diamond material on the Moonflex is does a much better job (it seems to have a more abrasive & polishing quality)then the DMT's. I also used to use DMT because that is all there was. I was never happy with the results. Moonflex are far superior IMHO.

Volantaddict I'm with Scalce here. Sawreeeeeeee! We were just trying to be helpful, chill!
Thanks for not calling me a poor bastard.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
They were originally developed to sharpen knives I believe.
What is different between cutting steel on a knife, and cutting steel on an edge? The steels are pretty similar high carbon steels so far as I know.

My problem with DMTs was that I had to clean the coarse ones very, very often to keep from damaging the surface by dragging steel particles around on the stone and digging them into the surface. The Moonflex seems to get loaded up far more before this becomes a problem. Other disadvantage was that the backing was less stiff and the tool was easier to deflect, ruining the edge. Still, I quite successfully got good edge prep with them for years. Probably took a bit longer, but I'm not completely convinced that I'm getting better results now.

If I lived in Montana, I probably wouldn't be such a tuning nazi anyway.
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
If I lived in Montana, I probably wouldn't be such a tuning nazi anyway.
Ah, but if you'd had the season we did last year you'd have much rock damage to take out of your edges. I suppose from what you've posted, that I should brush the filings out of the stone frequently. What do you recommend as an oil-free cutting fluid?
post #22 of 26
Sorma suggests 50% ethanol and 50% water. SVST makes a fluid that reminds me of ammonia free glass cleaner.

edit: I've also quite successfully just dipped it in the emulsion/coolant for ski tuning machines. I like the synthetic emulsions because they don't get stinky as quickly as the organics. I don't know what consumer products are roughly similar.
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman
Sorma suggests 50% ethanol and 50% water. SVST makes a fluid that reminds me of ammonia free glass cleaner.

edit: I've also quite successfully just dipped it in the emulsion/coolant for ski tuning machines. I like the synthetic emulsions because they don't get stinky as quickly as the organics. I don't know what consumer products are roughly similar.
50% ethanol and 50% water? Sounds like 100 proof vodka. Thanks G-man.
post #24 of 26

make your own

with the ski team tech's, DMT is the stone of CHOICE.
you can replicate the best diamond ever (the old one from toko on the silver bar stock-the original diamond tape strip version) for short $$$.
i made 60 of them and it ran just under 3.00 each.
post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
So Scalce, you assume that I read where to get Moonstones for less and chose not to? Then you call me a "poor bastard". Um....my parents would tend to disagree with the bastard part, but the poor part was exactly my point.
Sorry I didn't realize you didn't see his post.

I was just joking with you man about the poor thing. Geeeeeeeeezz

You really think I would look down on another skier because he can't afford $$$ tuning equipment.

Come on

BTW I grew up in the inner city and continue to live there.

I didn't start skiing until the 01/02 season because I couldn't afford it growing up. I make the money I do because I busted my ass in school and work hard.

Don't hate us because we have Moonflex stones.
post #26 of 26
I have not had any problem using the SVST diamond files on both side and base edges in the SVST and Base beast guides. On the base edges they are very rigid and prevent over-beveling while doing a nice job of polishing. When I bought this stuff I was influenced by Atomicman's post here http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
I use Base of beast & side of beast. Once you set your and side edge bevels with a file, you should not be using a file after that only diamond stones. I have found Reliable Racing & SVST diamond files( Not DMT's diamond stones, they are junk) work best. SVST are much more abrasive and you get a more polished finish. Theyu have a naluminum backing and are completly covered on one side with diamind abrasive material!

Also no one has mentioned using a Gummi stone and or an Arkansas stone to remove the side and base burrs as a final step. Your diamond files/stones no matter how fine (and you only need 400 or 600 grit for Super G and Downhill skis) leave a burr on the edge.

Sounds to me like your grinding too often, tread lightly on the grinds, Chief, or you won't have much ski left. Unless you have major base gouges or really torn up edges you should be able to "renew" things with your diamonds!

Once you have set the base edge bevel you cannot decrease the amount of base edge bevel. So don't over do it. In other words if you do a 1 degree and decide you want a .5 or .7 you have to regrind the base on a machine. If you are at 1 degree and want a 1.5 degree you can add the .5 degree base bevel but also have to redo the side edge bevel. Side edges can be reduce or increased without a grind!

Over & out!

Cliff

PS I use SVST's secret Sauce and diamond file wet!
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