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Skier stances in ski mag pictures - Page 2

post #31 of 49
If you ski steeper, how much so degree wise? Or are we into the realm of cliffs?
post #32 of 49
A. That slope isnt exactly super steep.
B. It was obviously set up as a one turn shot.
C. His technique is actually very good for Powder.
D. Down hill ski is leading, so he is NOT on his inside edge.
E. If you have half a clue inregards to skiing Pow than you would realise that this is very good form for a tight radius turn in soft snow.
F. If you still want to bitch about technique than spend a day trying to keep up with the skier. I bet you wouldnt last one run.

If you really think that most ski shots are shot in the midle of a run, than I hate to break you the news, but 99.5% of all ski shots are set up as one turn deals. The skier ussually starts slightly above the photog and only gets one shot to turn exactly where the photog wants, and make it look good. It is more difficult than you think, espescially when the skier ussually can not see the exact spot the photog has in mind and has to ski in blind and turn when he thinks he is at the spot the photog was describing.
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
For the record I have skied stuff that steep and steeper. This would be for real in season and in my imagination off season.

Nice try on the foot higher than the other theory. On a groomed surface I'd be inclined (intentional pun) to agree with the theory but in bottomless, the "elevation" (if you will) of the feet would be dependent on the pressure difference from foot to foot.

Why not go back and answer my question ?
48 degree slope with an assload of powder and you're quibbling about stance. I'm bored so even pulled out a clinometer. What relevance does your supposed steep skiing ability have to this thread?
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
I'm bored so even pulled out a clinometer.
Must be a big night for us bored folks

UL, your question makes no sense. An "average Joe" won't be skiing that kind of slope - powder or ice. And they won't be successful staring at a magazine cover or resort ad and then mimicking an expert skier regardless of slope or conditions.

If you are worried about what an "average Joe" might mimic, why not just insist that all pics be of "just above average" skiers on 20-25 degree groomed slopes? I mean really...
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
Yes I had a little 'tude when I wrote that. By ski nerd, I mean some one who is a little too into skiing, especially technique and form. I'm proud to be one . The pole up the hole comment on instructors was actually something my friend used to say about instructors (when I was an instructor). I didn't argue, kinda got his point, but he was pretty much always striving for the same technically correct skiing that he was putting down.

My attitude was a reaction to the idea that professional ski models can't ski. Then Uncle Louis posted the link to Vail's web page and I thought "OK, that IS a little off, I see your point." Then I found out it was Chris Anthony. Uh, nevermind, I'm not going to tell you Chris Anthony can't ski. He may lack my style, but I'm sure he would see that as a good thing!
You're forgivien -------Wigs
post #36 of 49
Spindrift,

Quote:
UL, your question makes no sense. An "average Joe" won't be skiing that kind of slope - powder or ice. And they won't be successful staring at a magazine cover or resort ad and then mimicking an expert skier regardless of slope or conditions.

If you are worried about what an "average Joe" might mimic, why not just insist that all pics be of "just above average" skiers on 20-25 degree groomed slopes? I mean really...
If you have ever been to Hunter Mt. on a weekend after even a small dump of powder---well you wouldn't believe it.
post #37 of 49
Come 'on now,
efficient skiers use different tatics for snow condition terrain etc. Chris is displaying a playful but very effective powder technique.{ geez that sounds like the description given of a run way model}.....Would you use a cowboy wide stance w/ high edge angles to ski a tight bump line! Or say a tighter stacked position for running gates! Or stinging a hard edge set in breakable crust. I seriously hope not! I would hope you have a variety of tatics for each one of thease situations.
Why would you be ridiculing some the better ambasadors of our sport. Alot of thease guys/girls were national level ski racers and mogul skiers before they decided they loved to ski more than compete! Some are just local talent w/ no backround, however they still would put the majority to shame at what they do!
Now, the Gangsta Steez!~ that craps gotta go!
post #38 of 49
It might not be a bad idea to get back on topic. This isn't about skiing powder, it's about how a given image can alter the public's perception of what is desireable skiing. Please go back and read the 1st post here. My response is trying to fit his context.

LeeLau- I posted the reference to my ability to ski the steeps because spindrift asked for a qualification. Thanks for the 48 degree measurement, it actually looked a bit steeper.

For those of who who can't relate to the steepness associated with that number the stair case in your house is probably around 42 degrees.

Mt Baker- I almost completly agree with your post, except I don't believe this to be a short radius turn...It would be very difficult to get that far to the inside and the right arm that far back given the "slow motion effect" in powder and the speed it appears the skier is moving. There is no question the skier is in balance and the position is "for the camera."

Here is my take on the whole deal.

There are really awful stances that anybody who has been out more than twice can see isn't the way to do it.

There is a neutral technically acceptable stance that will work in most all conditions with mininal tweaking.

There is what I'll call "condition specific" stances for a given type of skiing. I think the "vail" shot is in this category . You can add any of the truely amazing shots of Bodie if you want here too.

In short if you can take the skier and the stance and put him or her on any given terrain/ conditions and it still works, that's pretty much what determines a good stance for the general public to try to copy. The one I'm talking about would be the neutral stance.

The problem (for the orig poster or any other instructor) is when the student arrives at the ski school with the image of either of the other two stances noted above, and wants to ski "just like that".
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie

In short if you can take the skier and the stance and put him or her on any given terrain/ conditions and it still works, that's pretty much what determines a good stance for the general public to try to copy.

There is NO SUCH THING as a stance that works perfectly in any terrain and condition!!!!!!

Different terrain and different conditions REQUIRE different stances!

If yu dont beleave me, than try to ski in the exact same stance on a green run at any resort, than try to use that exat same stance skiing a world cup DH race, than try to use that EXact same stance on a 60 degree slope. It just doesnt work. Sure some of the basic fundamentals still aply but you are going to use a completly differnt stance for each funtion.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie

There is a neutral technically acceptable stance that will work in most all conditions with mininal tweaking.

In short if you can take the skier and the stance and put him or her on any given terrain/ conditions and it still works, that's pretty much what determines a good stance for the general public to try to copy. The one I'm talking about would be the neutral stance.
Seems pretty well defined here to me.
post #41 of 49
Unkle Louie,

Quote:
For those of who who can't relate to the steepness associated with that number the stair case in your house is probably around 42 degrees.
Average stairs have a 10.25 " tread cut w/11.25" tread and a 7" rise which relates to a 36deg. slope. If the rise is more than 7" or the tread cut less than 10.25", the angle is more. Rule of thumb, 2 treads and 1 rise should = 28".

RW
post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron White
Unkle Louie,



Average stairs have a 10.25 " tread cut w/11.25" tread and a 7" rise which relates to a 36deg. slope. If the rise is more than 7" or the tread cut less than 10.25", the angle is more. Rule of thumb, 2 treads and 1 rise should = 28".

RW
LOL guess we can argue anything here at Epic !

Must be regional...we shoot for the max allowable rise here @ 8" with a 10.25" tread.....What's the new angle ?

Say Hi to JH and Stache this weekend, and have a good T-Day and opening there.

Have we hijacked enough yet ?
post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
Here's my challenge to those who support the idea that there isn't much wrong with the "stance" in the www.vail.com link. Erase the powder and keep the stance and put average Joe who saw this position on an icy hill. Now, tell me what's working for him ?
I think that when you're skiing difficult terrain part of being skilled is the ability to react and correct when terrain puts you in a less than desirable position. So I don't think there's much wrong with the stance because on his next turn he's probably exactly where he wants to be without even thinking about it.

Steve

PS. Where is there a 48 degree pitch at Vail?
post #44 of 49
East Vail!!!!
post #45 of 49

Don't judge a book by its cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15
The fixed heel bindings also allow a lot of sloppy technique, backseat driving, etc. but who wants to see a lot of pictures of PSIA style skiing anyway? Boring!

I know this website is mostly about proper technique and how bad most skiers are (including professional ski models now!). A typical instructor skis like he has a pole up his ass, pictures of such skiing appeal to very few outside of our uptight little ski-nerd community.

While I agree with what you see on the hill from "a typical instructor", it's unfortunate the public gets the impression that this tight-ass style represents "PSIA skiing" and is all we can do.

What people see most on the hill are instructors demonstrating for beginning and intermediate level skiers, by far the biggest slice of our demographic pie. These developing skiers need visuals featuring easily discernible movements executed at a slow pace, so they can work toward efficiency and consistency.

Just as Jimi Hendrix practiced scales on the way to becoming a legend, these skiers are learning the rules on the way to eventually breaking them, because they'll get to that point way sooner by doing so. Their needs and outcomes are far different than what you see from magazine front cover athletes.

You probably won't get an opportunity to watch instructors truly rip unless they're in a race course (for which we're asked to ski in our civvies so we don't destroy our uniforms in the gates). In fact, when the uniforms come off, it's on our days off so we look like everyone else on the hill.

However, I invite you to visit my past and present resorts, where we have plenty of PSIA card-carrying former and present racers, D-team members, examiners and trainers, and off-time extreme skiers on staff.

If you do, I'll gladly accompany you and point them out.
post #46 of 49
The current Canadian CSIA technique is actually meant to have the hips pretty far back and to lean more forward at the waist compard to old days (or compared to current PSIA thinking). I'm not going to say whether I think this is better or worse, but there are some pretty hot CSIA instructors I know that ski that way and ski darn fast. They are center balanced. They have a whole method to their madness...they aren't just sitting on their heels. I don't particularly like skiing that way.. I went through several levels of CSIA and decided its not for me. But there are some interesting points gleaned from it.. I also seem to notice more and more American guys in photos demonstrating body positions with the hips increasingly back further than they used to be in previous years. Perhaps not as much as CSIA..but there is definitely a trend towards skiing with a more upright boot (less ankle flex), more waist flex and hips back a bit. In bumps and powder this makes absolute sense and probably on some steep terrain as well. I'm not sure its a good idea on groomers where CSIA instructors spend 99% of their time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnguy
In the recent edition of SKI PRO ( the CSIA magazine) the Eastern Technical Co-ordinator has a short article about "Staying in the middle". Writing about good fore-aft balance, he refers to a picture of a skier in that exagerated position. "Although his hips are over his heels, his shoulders are over his toes. All the body joints are working together to keep him balanced over the middle of his outside ski."

cdnguy
post #47 of 49
>>I also seem to notice more and more American guys in photos demonstrating body positions with the hips increasingly back further than they used to be in previous years. Perhaps not as much as CSIA..but there is definitely a trend towards skiing with a more upright boot (less ankle flex), more waist flex and hips back a bit.<<

I disagree. You may see this, but I would be willing to bet that they are not being trained this way.------Wigs
post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie
Glad to see you are all taking the bait....I clearly didn't say the individual couldn't ski...I, IMHO, just do not like the stance. I'm the first to admit that usually all bets are off in the deep stuff. If it works....it's in.

Here is the problem...Because it is in a major mag. or in this case the first page of Vails Web site....the average joe who couldn't pick a good stance from the worst on the planet sees this and tries it......on the ice....in New England in January.

Here's my challenge to those who support the idea that there isn't much wrong with the "stance" in the www.vail.com link. Erase the powder and keep the stance and put average Joe who saw this position on an icy hill. Now, tell me what's working for him ?
is the picture an advertisement for a ski area?

or is it a STATED DEMONSTRATION OF "GOOD" TECHNIQUE?
post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
is the picture an advertisement for a ski area?

or is it a STATED DEMONSTRATION OF "GOOD" TECHNIQUE?
To the guy who shows up at the original posters class with this picture in his head......

It's the one in the same.
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