New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

% of Excellent Skiers - Page 3

post #61 of 84

Damn elitists!

I keed....

I would say 1% of all the skiers I see are "Excellent"...as it should be, really. Thats what makes us (ha!) so special....
post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
I think there might be something to this, as there seems to be a higher percentage of very good skiers at Snowbowl, compared to what Cap'n S relates about Baker. Some of the better skiers from "The Bowl" have said to me various different versions of, "This mountian forces you to get better."
"This mountain forces you to get better"?
Oh please!
First, that's just lame.
Second, if anyone who's a top-tier skier is skiing at a resort that doesn't challenge them you have to wonder why they're there.
post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider
May I suggest that there are levels of Expert. An aspiring Expert on easy terrain and soft snow may not be an Expert on a steep Icy run.
Suggest it all you want, but you're not describing an expert.
post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
"This mountain forces you to get better"?
Oh please!
First, that's just lame.
Second, if anyone who's a top-tier skier is skiing at a resort that doesn't challenge them you have to wonder why they're there.
what VA should have said is this:

compared to most Northern Rockies ski areas, which are flush with lots of soft plentiful snow,

Snowbowl has typical '50s New England ski area conditions, icy over most of the mountain, lots of scraped-out hardpack, constantly varying snow conditions, not much grooming, and a whole lot of multiple fall lines.

people who grow up skiing Snowbowl usually are ahead of their other Northern Rockies-bred ski brethren simply because of the vast array of snow conditions they've faced.

this isn't a point of bragging. it's a point of fact.
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
what VA should have said is this:

compared to most Northern Rockies ski areas, which are flush with lots of soft plentiful snow,

Snowbowl has typical '50s New England ski area conditions, icy over most of the mountain, lots of scraped-out hardpack, constantly varying snow conditions, not much grooming, and a whole lot of multiple fall lines.

people who grow up skiing Snowbowl usually are ahead of their other Northern Rockies-bred ski brethren simply because of the vast array of snow conditions they've faced.

this isn't a point of bragging. it's a point of fact.
Your description of Snowbowl is making me feel all tingly on the inside....
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
"This mountain forces you to get better"?
Oh please!
First, that's just lame.
Second, if anyone who's a top-tier skier is skiing at a resort that doesn't challenge them you have to wonder why they're there.
"first of all,"

a truly expert skier can find ways to "challenge" him- or herself in many types of terrain, including flat winding Green runs.

"second,"

what is "lame" is insisting that only your view on "expert" matters.
post #67 of 84
" Your description of Snowbowl is making me feel all tingly on the inside...."


Thats pretty sick Alfonse!
post #68 of 84
Where I ski--primarily Vail and Copper--I see a fairly high percentage of good-to-excellent skiers, but I ski back bowls for the most part and on weekdays about 80% of the time. So it's probably a healthy percentage of locals and old-timers and ski area employees of one sort or another out there with me.

I don't know about all of you, but the experts in my book are the ones who don't miss a beat when the terrain drops out from underneath them, in an area where the line suddenly gets so steep that you can't see bottom or there's a cornice or a drop. Or who just ski silkily away when the snow changes from groomed to crud to moguls and back again in the matter of a few hundred yards.

I know plenty of people who are pretty good skiers in other, specific conditions who stop and talk about lines and hem and haw when they reach a point of variable or scary terrain, or when they reach a point when they can't quite see what's below them. The truly great skiers I know don't hesitate when the terrain rolls over or drops out from underneath them. Aside from an occasional bobble, their form stays strong, athletic, graceful, and essentially unchanged from what it would be anywhere else on the mountain.

Expert doesn't necessarily mean fast. Speed can mask a whole host of mistakes. In fact, all of the great skiers I know are better for being controlled skiers, although they can rip the hell out of the hill when they want to.

Also, most of the experts I know are obssessed with watching other experts, skiing with them, chasing them. . . and are generally pretty humble about their skiing. I hear a whole lot of, "Oh man, he's a great skier! I wish I could do that!" from people I consider minor ski gods/godesses themselves. There's bravado when it's warranted, but also a whole lot of admiration for the technique or accomplishment of other skiers.

I for one am going to watch and chase and admire the superb skiers until I believe I am of the firmament myself. And if that means I have to ski every day of every week for the rest of my life, then I won't complain! I'll secretly hope somebody's admiring me from the lift already, though. That would be awesome!

Mollie
post #69 of 84
Mollie, you sing pure and true!
post #70 of 84
In any sport I've always hated the term "expert". It tends to be highly dependent on a definition. That is particularly the case with skiing. Lower level skiers often call experts anyone that reasonably skis the black diamond slopes. And the ski industry has always tended to divide us up in that inane manner. Go rent some skis and one has three choices of which EXPERT is always one haha. I always cringe scratching my X on those sheets. Personally I've always preferred to be called advanced. I may look like an expert to lower level skiers but as any of us that have been around a long time know, there are many types of terrain, technique, and equipment to become proficient at at the higher levels. And I myself have never bothered to do so on any except those I've been interested in for having a good time at. There are few resorts where our best skiers can really keep their all around skills honed. Most are the large western resorts. And few skiers have the time, job, or circumstance to regularly be using all the different types of skis and associated gear. There are instructor types that see flaws in a lot of advanced skiers technique. But to me as long as an advanced skier looks smooth, efficient, and stylish they are fine with me.

Instead of talking about experts EXPERT I'll just comment on advanced skiers. Generally resorts that have more variety and amount of advanced terrain have better potential to develop better skiers. And it follows that those resorts tend to attract the better skiers versus resorts with more modest terrain. Resorts where there is a good population base close by tend to have a larger percentage of better skiers versus resorts with similar quality of terrain and numbers of customers but a smaller local populations. As any advanced skier knows skiing time each season means a lot. Resorts that draw good numbers of weekend skiers from a large population base within a fews hours drive have a larger percentage of better skiers than similar resorts that just draw destination skiers. Of course resorts that draw skiers with the least skiing experience and days skiing during a given season are likely to have the lowest skills percentage wise. Like the many of the big Rockies resorts. In our resorts that draw on weekend skiers like Denver for Winter Park/MJ and Arapahoe, SF Bay Area, Sacto, and Reno for Squaw, Alpine, Rose, and Kirkwood, Seatle for Crystal and Baker, Portland for Mt Hood and Bachelor, etc many of those weekend skiers have quite high level skills. Some in fact spent a season or two working at or near resorts at one time or another and became weekend skiers while living in a city where they could make a decent living and still regularly ski. In any case whether one resort has a higher percentage of advanced skiers than another skiers does not have much to do with the average quality of skills at those resorts.

...David
post #71 of 84

Snow day

All over Vermont and the Rockies too, I am always amazed at the percentage of really good skiers out on a snow day! You know the days, Up to your knees, with poor visibility and cold as h---.

Then there are the "State Days" Go to the Canyon (Pretty much all blacks and double blacks) at Killington on the week days that offer Vermonters a discount day pass. ( Used to be $20 cash) And you'll see a good percentage of people that can ski.

Very enjoyable company all in all.

CalG
post #72 of 84
Probably missed it but surprised no one has mentioned the change in the shape of skis. I have heard people say that the new shaped skis "practically turn themselves". Perhaps people are not learning the basics on how to turn like you had to with straight and longer skis.

During the "straight" era(no gay jokes, please) the proper length was determined by the arm extended upward and your wrist was the mark. With the new skis it's the bottom of the chin.

25 years ago to take a photograph with an SLR you had to learn about the basics of photography. Exposure, shutter speed, depth of field etc. Then came all the automatic settings for SLR and noone has to know that stuff to get a good photo. When I taught photography it didn't take too long to figure out who had the manual cameras and who used the auto settings.

Are shaped/shorter skis just another example of our dumbing down what people have to know/learn in order to ski, photograph, or read a map ect.

Do shaped and shorter skis contribute to the % of excellent skiers out there?

When I was a kid I took lessons but I got alot from watching my hero, Stein Erickson, every thursday night all thru high school from channel 3 out of Burlington. I also followed him around for 3 days in Snowmass in 1970, luckily the term "stalker" wasn't invented yet..lol
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHrefugee
Probably missed it but surprised no one has mentioned the change in the shape of skis. I have heard people say that the new shaped skis "practically turn themselves". Perhaps people are not learning the basics on how to turn like you had to with straight and longer skis.
....

Do shaped and shorter skis contribute to the % of excellent skiers out there?
I don't think so.

I do think that it may help people learn more easily, but I really don't think that it does much for the % of "excellent" skiers out there.

You see, with a change in technology (shape) some comes a change in style (function). The definition changes, but the top % really doesn't. If you're honest about what constitutes a top level skier, I don't think the number changes much because of the time, committment, & talent necessary to achieve the level.

J.
post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
what VA should have said is this:

compared to most Northern Rockies ski areas, which are flush with lots of soft plentiful snow,

Snowbowl has typical '50s New England ski area conditions, icy over most of the mountain, lots of scraped-out hardpack, constantly varying snow conditions, not much grooming, and a whole lot of multiple fall lines.

people who grow up skiing Snowbowl usually are ahead of their other Northern Rockies-bred ski brethren simply because of the vast array of snow conditions they've faced.

this isn't a point of bragging. it's a point of fact.
You mean that Eastern skiers are "ahead" of the Westerners because of the "vast array of snow conditions they've faced".

I agree, and I'll raise you smaller hills:
I grew up skiing in Northern Ontario (you want adverse conditions?!!) and with the small hills you get to really know terrain.
I believe this results in being better able to 'suss out any terrain and pick nice lines when the Eastern skier graduates to Western mountains. I see it with my sister...and I hope I have the same ability.
I'm not bragging, either.
post #75 of 84
it is quite interesting to read all of these responses....they are all the same but all different. What I believe this shows is that there is no correct answer and everyone seems to have a different view.

I agree with the said comments like;

ski any terrain without wavering.
see lines and oppertunities on the mountain
use all equiptment without problems

expert skiers are relative to the terrain and people they ski with or on. I ski 100 days a year. Someone from the east, or denver for that matter, may come out and ski with me/group and be fine, keep up, etc...... question is; how many days, runs, in a row can they do it? If I am skiing with someone with 2 days on the hill (5-10k ft per day), compared to my 35 days (25k-35k ft per day) there is no way they can keep up consistantly. I get to practice skiing everyday. This doesn't make the aforementioned person/s less accomplished just not as practiced.

As far as terrain, if the hardest slope is Gunbarrel at Roundtop, how good do you have to be to ski this with expertise, well good enough for that slope. But put that same person on the top of Corbet's and watch him/her quake. People come into play too, I am an expert when I am skiing with my visiting friends, but when I ski with Chris Davenport, I feel like an intermediate. He is a level above where we (local group) are, although he came from our group. It is amazing to ski, speak, and have a beer, with someone like him! Another thing to remember is that the guy in the bar bragging is not an expert! ha ha ha.....I'm sure that never happens on the East!

It is all relative and at the end of the day, YOU know where you stand, and if you don't, you'll figure it out when you ski outside of your comfort zone.

As for the real question;

I would say we have a huge amount of talented skiers here in Aspen. I hear tourists always commenting on the talent around here. Aspen Mtn does not have a green run, so maybe that helps weed out the total gapers. Aspen Highlands has some of the best terrain in the country and it is a pleasure to ride the lift and watch your friends ripping it up.
post #76 of 84

You Might Be An Expert If

Ok, there are experts and then there are people like Chris Davenport, Hugo, Eric, Ingrid, Abma, MD, McKonkey, et al. I was thinking...

You Might Be An Elite Skier If...

...You've appeared in a MSP, Warren Miller, PBP, etc film

...You've competed for your country

...You've been subject of a piece in Skier, Freeze, Freeskier, etc

...?

As far as "Keeping Up" goes, lloyd, isn't that "merely" a matter of fitness?
post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
Ok, there are experts and then there are people like Chris Davenport, Hugo, Eric, Ingrid, Abma, MD, McKonkey, et al. I was thinking...

You Might Be An Elite Skier If...

...You've appeared in a MSP, Warren Miller, PBP, etc film

...You've competed for your country

...You've been subject of a piece in Skier, Freeze, Freeskier, etc



...?

As far as "Keeping Up" goes, lloyd, isn't that "merely" a matter of fitness?

I agree and was trying to echo what you have said above "there are experts and then there are people like....."
There are many elite skiers that have never done anything above. Look at the JH air patrol, some of those folks are "elite"

and as far as your comment on "keeping up". My comments were about people with alike accomplishments on the hill......Then it is all about fitness! after you have the technical knowhow to make a ski turn, fitness and practice will take you to the next level. You have to be strong to ski hard, day after day after day after day.


PS what is the name of the Sushi restaurant, super expensive, maybe is like "toto's", located in downtown vancouver. We ate there on our way to the Skeena/Coast Mtns last Feb. and I can't remember the name
post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHrefugee
Are shaped/shorter skis just another example of our dumbing down what people have to know/learn in order to ski, photograph, or read a map ect.
not at all. what modern ski technology has done is simple: torsional stiffness can be increased without a necessary equivalent increase in longitudinal stiffness.

in the pencil ski era,

torsional stiffness meant longitudinal stiffness. this meant that you had to be strong and ski fast just to make the ski bend.

not every situation calls for high-speed skiing. not everyone wants to windshield-wipe almost all of their sub-40mph turns.

high level skiing still requires good technique, dedication, some innate balance/recovery skill, and the opportunity to practice frequently.

if you think that it sucks to have the elite carving club expanded by perhaps 3% then I guess there isn't much persuading to be done here.

if you think that modern skis have caused a gigantic increase in the number of high level skiers I'd have to conclude likewise, there isn't much persuading to be done here.
post #79 of 84
To me, EXPERT means:-any time-any terrain-any conditions ANY Boiler ice on 50degrees.-looking relaxed (maybe not being relaxed though)-Knowing when to say NO and turn back or go another way. -being a professional.using this definition: 0.1 % on our hill. I skied Telluride late last year. I would not call myself an expert, I would say advanced. As many western skiers know, the mountain freezes at night, by 10-11am the sun softens the snow. Here I am riding one of my favorite trails at 9:30a and and some guys I have watched ski and would have called expert asked me....what the hell are you doing skiing that run? Its frozen. I tell them..its not too bad. They follow and quickly fall apart. They are experts in powder and soft snow. But not experts. I on the other hand as an Eastern skier...am the opposite.
post #80 of 84
agree, Greg. however, note the opposite holds too. there are Eastern "experts" who fall apart in crud and deep pow.
post #81 of 84
No more than 3 in 100 on average of what I personally consider a true expert.
Funny how you ride a chair with people who watch someone coming down the hill and exclaim "boy is that guy/girl a great skier"....I usually just bite my tongue....
post #82 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
agree, Greg. however, note the opposite holds too. there are Eastern "experts" who fall apart in crud and deep pow.
Could not agree more..
post #83 of 84
You folks are really jaded. I'd say that 25%+ of the skiers I see at Alta and Snowbird are what I'd call experts (psia level 8-9). Of course it's kinda like meca and it might just be the terrain I'm in, but the percentage is fairly high....
post #84 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
You folks are really jaded. I'd say that 25%+ of the skiers I see at Alta and Snowbird are what I'd call experts (psia level 8-9). Of course it's kinda like meca and it might just be the terrain I'm in, but the percentage is fairly high....
I could not agree more.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion