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I give up - Page 3

post #61 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl
You can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a bulls ass, but wouldn't you rather take the butchers word for it?
You learned the hard way, didn't ya?
post #62 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
...

I don't go waving my credentials around, but I assure you, overall they certainly match (or exceed) yours in engineering experience, variety of skis skied on, and skiing ablity level.

...
SSH:

It's taken me awhile, but I've come to the conclusion that our friend HS simply can't be anything but an elaborate troll.

It's really rather brilliant because he comes off as so incredibly clueless that you're convinced he MUST believe this stuff he's putting out. Surely no one could, with a straight face, write that he's superior in all these ways to someone else he's never even met.

So my bet is that he's laughing uproariously as we all try to politely - more or less - point out that most of his opinions are moronic.

I'll give him this: he IS entertaining - in a Rush Limbaugh sort of way.
post #63 of 113

Stop Feeding the Troll

Rely on your own knowledge, experience and skill, and exchange it with that of others who have opinions you value. After a while, the troll will lose interest. If you cannot accomplish that, then try some CHERRY PIE!
post #64 of 113
I think HighwayStar needs hug.
post #65 of 113
No hugs, just drugs. Actually my bet is that he/she is someone here under another name and as bob said, laughing his ass off
post #66 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
I've already been skiing....have you?
I've already been skiing eleventy-billion times. And I know more about lemon merangue pie than you ever will.

Ta-ta. Off to ski the next three days with no fear of hitting rocks. Can I get an amen, borthers and sisters?
post #67 of 113
An ....... Amen!

and as traditional in the Navy, we would sing a hymn.

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim. Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim! F_uck Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim.

Amen.
post #68 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
An ....... Amen!

and as traditional in the Navy, we would sing a hymn.

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim. Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim! F_uck Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim.

Amen.
LMAO, we need a animated emoticon laying on his belly and slapping the ground while he is laughing
post #69 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
Ta-ta. Off to ski the next three days with no fear of hitting rocks. Can I get an amen, borthers and sisters?
Amen!

TR wanted. With pics! This is the time I'd like to see what MBS can show us!
post #70 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
I've already been skiing eleventy-billion times. And I know more about lemon merangue pie than you ever will.

Ta-ta. Off to ski the next three days with no fear of hitting rocks. Can I get an amen, borthers and sisters?
I'm CERTAIN that I have forgotten more about lemon merangue pie than you will ever know. I know this because I'm right and therefore this is correct of me to know such things.
post #71 of 113
"For a 200lb person to sustain a 10m arc at 35 mph, you need to deliver 500 lb of certipetal force by standing on the ski edge. If you weigh 200 lb, your center of mass needs to be at 68 degrees from vertical....a pretty high edge angle. While this is totally possible on a lifted, wide, 25m sidecut ski, it sure as hell isn't going to happen on a 12m ski"

Yeah? Well I weigh 200lbs and I made a 1 M arc at 75 mph on an old pair of 210 K2 TNCs with my skis at 90 degrees from vertical. I am so powerful that my skis exploded yet I finished the carve perfectly on my boots. I then went into the woods and made a pair of 250s out of a tree and laid down perfect 2 m arcs at 95 mph.
post #72 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
For a 200lb person to sustain a 10m arc at 35 mph, you need to deliver 500 lb of certipetal force by standing on the ski edge. If you weigh 200 lb, your center of mass needs to be at 68 degrees from vertical....a pretty high edge angle. While this is totally possible on a lifted, wide, 25m sidecut ski, it sure as hell isn't going to happen on a 12m ski - you will be totally overskiing the sidecut. If you try a 5m radius slalom turn at 35mph, you need 1000lb of centripetal force, and a 78 degree edge angle...while this may be physically possible, I doubt most skiers can perform something like it. What's more realistic? How about a 5m turn at 20 mph, where the edge angle required is only 58 degrees, or 10m turn at 20 mph where a 39 degree edge angle is all that's required. How about 30mph, 8m radius...nope, that's going to require a 68 degree angle. Granted, I don't know the exact arc shapes the metrons form when put on edge and bent, but it is obviously going to be much less than than their measured radius at high edge angles.....definitely not 8m at 68 degrees, etc. If you did have a table of arc shape vs. edge angle, you could back calculate and find the optimal speed any given turn shape. In a nutshell though, you will pretty much be oversking the sidecut at above 25mph.

If you do indeed ski at over 25mph regularly, I suggest buying a ski with around a 20m sidecut, so you aren't constantly skiddering down the hill.
Someone better tell the WC slalom skiers to use fatties.
post #73 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan
I've already been skiing eleventy-billion times. ?
How many brazilians is that?:
post #74 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j
How many brazilians is that?:
Dubya may not know much about Brazillions but he's learning a LOT about Argentineans.
post #75 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck34
"For a 200lb person to sustain a 10m arc at 35 mph, you need to deliver 500 lb of certipetal force by standing on the ski edge. If you weigh 200 lb, your center of mass needs to be at 68 degrees from vertical....a pretty high edge angle. While this is totally possible on a lifted, wide, 25m sidecut ski, it sure as hell isn't going to happen on a 12m ski"

Yeah? Well I weigh 200lbs and I made a 1 M arc at 75 mph on an old pair of 210 K2 TNCs with my skis at 90 degrees from vertical. I am so powerful that my skis exploded yet I finished the carve perfectly on my boots. I then went into the woods and made a pair of 250s out of a tree and laid down perfect 2 m arcs at 95 mph.
You sure can read some amazing stuff on the internet. It's full of amazing people. This one may be hard for HS to top.
post #76 of 113
I killed me a bar when I was only three.
post #77 of 113
This thread is heading off to Bolivian...
post #78 of 113
I would like to have a shot at this........


I ski Atomic SL9's, I love race skis because of the hold they give me and because I used to race. I tried the Metrons B5 at Copper last year, they didn't hold as good an edge at speed but the ski fitter in the rental shop messed up my fitting I believe (they would come off, often).

In Highway Star's defense, he's probably right that the metrons aren't as good at speeds as other skis, but they aren't made for that or marketed that way.


Highway Star, you seem smart, but man, you need to learn to shut your mouth sometimes.:
post #79 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckingfellers
LMAO, we need a animated emoticon laying on his belly and slapping the ground while he is laughing
You mean kinda like this...
post #80 of 113
Make sure to get the '04/'05 sheen right on that Neox Metron smiley. No point beating someone up with a lightweight binding.
post #81 of 113
Isn't "Highway Star" an old Deep Purple tune, on the same album as "Smoke on the Water"

DUNH DUNH DUNH, DUNH DUHN DUHN DUHN
post #82 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
So my bet is that he's laughing uproariously as we all try to politely - more or less - point out that most of his opinions are moronic.
I'm laughing, but at your opinions and your attempts to defend them.
post #83 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI
Isn't "Highway Star" an old Deep Purple tune, on the same album as "Smoke on the Water"

DUNH DUNH DUNH, DUNH DUHN DUHN DUHN
Nobody's gonna take my car, gonna race it to the ground.
Nobody's gonna take my car, it's gonna break the speed of sound.

Yeah, it's a killing machine, it's got everything......
post #84 of 113
I am going to have to agree with HS on the physics, without even having done any calculations. You don't have enough reverse angulation to make a carved 40 mph 10 m turn on a HARD SURFACE with a 12-m sidecut ski. The only way to make the turn is on soft snow that uses the base of the bent ski more than the the edge, and soft snow won't have the structural strength to support the load anyway. If you want serious forces you need more edge on the hard stuff. The wide ski will give you a little more snow to push against in soft stuff, but it only goes so far.

Having spent a little time trying to find the speed limit of SG skis that have about a 50 m sidecut radius by physicsmans sidecut calculator, and having tried various modern short-radius skis. I can say without even trying the Metron B5s that they should under no circumstances be allowed to be used in FIS SG or DH races, and I thik it unlikely that even if they were allowed in GS races anyone would be able to win on them. My guess is that the people who make up the FIS rules would agree with HS that high speed and short radius don't mix.

It's all about a point of reference. If HS has, as he states, experience at DH racing speeds, what he considers acceptable as an all-around ski and what most people who ski consider acceptable as an all-around ski are two different things.


I can also tell you without even trying it that a motorcycle with very steep steering geometry would not be suitable for blasting the back roads at a buck-fifty.

I can tell you without even trying it that a light putter will not be as suitable teeing off as a Big Bertha.

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, but you don't always have to taste it if you already know something about it.

Edit: Like big fat tires and everything..
post #85 of 113
Has Elvis left the building?
post #86 of 113
Ghost, let's be clear about what he said: the b5s cannot possibly be skied over 25 mph and are not an all-around ski for anyone other than a low-level skier.
post #87 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Ghost, let's be clear about what he said: the b5s cannot possibly be skied over 25 mph and are not an all-around ski for anyone other than a low-level skier.
I missed that.
I think he's overstated his case a little.
"Can't carve a 40 mph LR turn on hard snow", I'll buy.
"Can't be skied over 25 mph" : . He must have them confused with that 130 cm long super skinny wooden ski from the sears catalogue circa 1965. Naw, he's just trolling.
post #88 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
You mean kinda like this...
Or like this one
post #89 of 113
Isn't that entitled
ROTFLTIPMP?
post #90 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
I missed that.
I think he's overstated his case a little.
"Can't carve a 40 mph LR turn on hard snow", I'll buy.
"Can't be skied over 25 mph" : . He must have them confused with that 130 cm long super skinny wooden ski from the sears catalogue circa 1965. Naw, he's just trolling.
No, I am just being misquoted. Please re-read my posts on the previous page. I concluded:

"my experience with other atomics and other short sidecut skis leaves me with the conclusion that the short radius metrons are most likely far more limiting than you are describing, and that the major reason you find them a good choice, is that you don't ski particularly fast and agressively. If you don't spend much time above 25 mph, and like short turns, I'm sure they are fantastic."

And:

"If you do indeed ski at over 25mph regularly, I suggest buying a ski with around a 20m sidecut, so you aren't constantly skiddering down the hill."

Point being, is that you basicly run out of sidecut on a 12m radius ski at around 25 mph. By 30 mph you are really pushing it...you may still be able to do a skiddered, semicarved turn while oversking the sidecut or underedge the ski on soft snow to make a clean arc. At 35mph there is no way in hell you'll be able to make an agressively edged carved turn, or any carved turn really.

Don't get me wrong, 20-25 mph is a pretty good clip, that's faster than alot of people ski at. However, I grew up skiing fast and racing GS, and typically freeski faster than that, around 35-40 mph - thus I am most comfortable on skis in the 20m to 30m radius range.
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