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The tone of the forums  

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
Recently we have seen an alarming trend on the forums of name calling and insults (also known as ad hominem attacks) and "pushing people's buttons" just to get a rise out of them. This message is to put all of EpicSki's users on notice that we intend immediately to begin reversing this trend and begin the healing of a community that at one time was almost self-moderating, and a welcoming place to read, chat and discuss.

Effective now, you can expect that I WILL delete mean-spirited posts containing ad hominem attacks, regardless of who posted it or in what context. I WILL delete responding posts that quote the offending language. I WILL delete entire threads if necessary. Call it censorship if you want; the EpicSki team calls it keeping AC's house according to the standards he established as his legacy. We intend to maintain a civil and welcoming place for people to come and chat, share, and discuss skiing.

We are prepared to help people with the learning curve by the following consequences:

Constant and repeat offenders will be banned, first temporarily on a "time-out basis." If the offensive behavior continues after the time-out, the ban will be made permanent. Attempts to get around a temporary ban will result in the ban becoming permanent.

These rules apply to all the forums, including the Supporter's Lounge. Our insistence on common courtesy is to encourage the kind of healthy and productive conversation that has made the EpicSki Community one of the world's best FREE ski-related content providers on the Web. We hope you will stay and enjoy the forums, contribute, debate and learn. Expand your horizons. Be open-minded. But definitely leave your dark sides and egos at the door.
post #2 of 40
You certainly disavow ad hominem attacks here and that is good. But what about racism? I think that is an issue that needs to be addressed here. What is the administration's policy on racism?
post #3 of 40
Sounds fair from where I sit.
post #4 of 40
Thread Starter 
P.S. This post was actually written a few weeks ago but just as I was about to post it, things seemed to have calmed down so I put it on the back burner to think about it more. Now it seems the need has risen again to the top.

Since the administrators and moderators (there are a few that help us out) don't have time to read every post put up, please contact any of the team if there are threads that need attention.
post #5 of 40
Nonsense. What about ad hominem attacks against an entire people? That's called ad populum, and it's clearly more damaging and vicious.

It appears that Admin has decided to delete Spindrift’s important thread intended to confront openly an active, overt racist on Epic. At the same time, there has been no apparent open effort to deal with the problem. We're still waiting, Dchan...

Evidently, racism is OK here ... and considered no worse than using mean words or profanity.

Complete bullsheet.
post #6 of 40
Thread Starter 
Racism has no place here.

CIVIL Dialog would be allowed in the lounge but the same rules and actions would be taken there as well.

DC
post #7 of 40
Thread Starter 
We will not deem to be the "Judge" of who is racist, and who is allow to post. If you have a problem with that, sorry.

Racist remarks or accusations of racism however will not be tolerated from either side.
post #8 of 40
So now we're getting to the nub of the problem. You actually see racism and accusations of racism as equally bad. Unbelievable. Please ban me!
post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
We will not deem to be the "Judge" of who is racist, and who is allow to post. If you have a problem with that, sorry.

Racist remarks or accusations of racism however will not be tolerated from either side.
You don't have to be the "Judge" in the case of xdog1. He openly admits that he is a racist. Are you saying that he's still allowed to post racist comments here as long as they aren't "ad hominem" attacks?
post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbroun
Please ban me!
Now...there's a poll that would get some attention.

You guys need to lighten up. You're sucking the fun out of this forum, at least from my perspective.
post #11 of 40
We are not sucking the fun out of the forum. The fact that racism is seems to be allowed here is sucking the fun out of the forums.
post #12 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbroun
So now we're getting to the nub of the problem. You actually see racism and accusations of racism as equally bad. Unbelievable. Please ban me!
No, you are reading your spin into my comment.

I did not make a judgement good or bad, but that both would not be allowed.

If a racist came here and posted only good technical info about skiing although they were a "known self appointed" racist, By banning them then technically just because of their beliefs we would be guilty of making the same judgements as a bigot. Same applies to sexual preference, religion of choice, etc.
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
No, you are reading your spin into my comment.

I did not make a judgement good or bad, but that both would not be allowed.

If a racist came here and posted only good technical info about skiing although they were a "known self appointed" racist, By banning them then technically just because of their beliefs we would be guilty of making the same judgements as a bigot. Same applies to sexual preference, religion of choice, etc.
You can't be serious.
post #14 of 40
Effective now, you can expect that I WILL delete mean-spirited posts containing ad hominem attacks, regardless of who posted it or in what context. I WILL delete responding posts that quote the offending language. I WILL delete entire threads if necessary. Call it censorship if you want; the EpicSki team calls it keeping AC's house according to the standards he established as his legacy. We intend to maintain a civil and welcoming place for people to come and chat, share, and discuss skiing.

way late.
way weak.
pro-active, rather than reactive woulda been the course, obvious a long time ago.
post #15 of 40
If a scientist came up with a cure for cancer, would we boycott thecure because the scientist was a racist?

The racist comments can be deleted and ignored but could we not use the knowledge of such a person?

Beating up on Dchan isn't the answer is it?

Has anyone ever been banned here?
post #16 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
If a scientist came up with a cure for cancer, would we boycott thecure because the scientist was a racist?

The racist comments can be deleted and ignored but could we not use the knowledge of such a person?

Beating up on Dchan isn't the answer is it?

Has anyone ever been banned here?
First answer, No I would not boycott. But then again I'm more tolerant than most.

Second Answer, delete and yes we can use the knowledge

Third answer, Maybe. but again, I'm probably more tolerant than most.

Fourth answer, Yes. and it looks more and more like it will happen again.
post #17 of 40
To equate calling someone on their intolerance and hate as intolerance and hate is just plain sophistry. You should rethink this position. Dchan, if you're acting unilaterally, I think all of the E-team should take some time to reach a consensus and then inform us.
post #18 of 40

yup

this is the fix.
horse done gone.
fix the corral.
repeat.
over and over.
post #19 of 40
Teton Gravity Research is all over this thread ... makes us look like a bunch of wankers

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d=1#post523923
post #20 of 40

What Ryan Said

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
Effective now, you can expect that I WILL delete mean-spirited posts containing ad hominem attacks, regardless of who posted it or in what context. I WILL delete responding posts that quote the offending language. I WILL delete entire threads if necessary. Call it censorship if you want; the EpicSki team calls it keeping AC's house according to the standards he established as his legacy. We intend to maintain a civil and welcoming place for people to come and chat, share, and discuss skiing.

way late.
way weak.
pro-active, rather than reactive woulda been the course, obvious a long time ago.
DChan, what the heck took so long? I thought there was a "team" now at Epic to help?
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbroun
Teton Gravity Research is all over this thread ... makes us look like a bunch of wankers

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d=1#post523923
who cares? :
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adolf Hitler
Please, good folk of Epic, welcome me with open arms.

Love,
Adolf
Oh, you will be. Just make sure you don't use any swear words or "act mean" when you fire up the furnaces...
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springhill Crazie
I think all of the E-team should take some time to reach a consensus and then inform us.

Unfortunately, at least one post has complained that the team didn't produce an answer sooner. It appears that no matter what, the team will be held responsible!
post #24 of 40
The day this place administratively "deals" with people for what they think or believe, as distinct from how they very specifically *act*, HERE, I'm out the door.

To infer that prohibiting both overt racist statements and attacks on people for being racists means that they're viewed as equal evils is an unsupportable assertion.

The correct inference would seem to me to be that if you see post that violates the terms and conditions of the use of these forums, direct a moderators attention to it rather than taking the bait and going to war over it and running the risk of violating the terms and conditions yourself.

It looks pretty straightforward to me.

I don't condone racism. I don't condone thought police either.
post #25 of 40
Moderation and censor ship, just ads to this kind of problem. Attempting to ignor it, by deleting it, is no different than when the world ignored the actions of the Nazis prior to world war2. Leaving the post up for the rest of the board to deal with the individual, would probally be more effective in changing the minds of a racist.

Moderation and censorship only ads to problems, people should be alowed to practice free thought and come to there own conclusions, if somebody post somehting that is past the line, the comunity will most likely take care of it on its own.

Rember moderation and censorship is ususally baked by those that are incapable of creating inteligent thoughts on there own.
post #26 of 40
Unfortunately, at least one post has complained that the team didn't produce an answer sooner. It appears that no matter what, the team will be held responsible!


step one, stop worrying about being held responsible.
post #27 of 40
jstraw, when xdog came out, I reported then I posted a direct reply to xdog. When the discussion continued, I stated my opinion that x should be banned and a few of the reasons why I felt so. I did so in as cool and deliberate way, as devoid of hyperbole as I could. I did not war, I did not incite. I make no accusations nor do I blame site administrators. I did not demand an immediate response. I ask for a considered response.

The real problems of a sometimes ugly world have visited our house. What are we going to do about it?
post #28 of 40
sweep and delete, sweep and delete, sweep and delete.
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
sweep and delete, sweep and delete, sweep and delete.
Ah yes -- the cleansing! I am familiar with this process!

I am glad that I have been welcomed here! I just received the following email from Epic Ski:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSki Admin email
Adolf Hitler,Thanks for registering at The Barking Bear Forums! We are glad you have chosen to be a part of our community and we hope you enjoy your stay.Thanks again,The Barking Bear Forums team
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier
Moderation and censor ship, just ads to this kind of problem. Attempting to ignor it, by deleting it, is no different than when the world ignored the actions of the Nazis prior to world war2. Leaving the post up for the rest of the board to deal with the individual, would probally be more effective in changing the minds of a racist.

Moderation and censorship only ads to problems, people should be alowed to practice free thought and come to there own conclusions, if somebody post somehting that is past the line, the comunity will most likely take care of it on its own.

Rember moderation and censorship is ususally baked by those that are incapable of creating inteligent thoughts on there own.
You've got a point and as the discussion continued I thought dchan had decided to allow us to self moderate this one and let the chips fall where they may but to lock or delete a thread because one individual is acting badly but to allow overt proclamations of racism and the reaction to that stand seems duplicitous, to say the least.

One real consideration here, and I really hesitate to bring this up, in some part this site is supported by people like me that open up our wallets and give cold hard cash, cash that could easily be spent elsewhere. Because I contribute I feel a degree of ownership, a small degree. When someone, another financial contributor or not, soils my house, I want to clean it up and prevent the havoc from happening again.

Thoughts, intelligent or not, are not expressed in a vacuum.
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