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Powder lines & etiquette - Page 2

post #31 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bell
Well, I guess I'll be seeing you at TSV then Woodee!
I was there for my first time last year - awesome mountain. Scary how similar it is to my all time favorite Alta. Not just in the "No boards" rule, but in the layout and general feel of the hill.

I guess the bottom line is that if you're willing to work harder than the others you'll get what you worked for. Taking a high traverse versus a low traverse isn't really much more work, so you only get to claim the few turns of difference between the two ... as long as someone behind you isn't moving faster than you. There are no guarantees.
post #32 of 103
I think this is all a little silly. Have a good time. SKI!
post #33 of 103
LEELAU


Awesome where is that??
post #34 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
I was skiing at Schweitzer one powder day. There was this trail off the nose (? far right off the high speed) that only had a couple of tracks when I hit it. It was so sweet, I had to do it again. Sure enough each set of the previous tracks had a shadow. So I shadowed my own tracks. After 13 laps each it was time for lunch and we'd only used about a 1/4 of the trail. Without the discipline, the trail would have been tracked out in 1/2 the runs we made. It's etiquete to conserve a scarce resource and share it wth others.
All well and good, but Therusty, I ask again: "What if people can't do turns in the same rhythm as you? Are they then not allowed to ski that hill?"

I would like to think that skiing is a friendly sport, where we welcome less experienced newcomers, and don't "rip on them" or "cut them up" and all that stuff that apparently goes on in surfing.

Yes, this is a petty argument, but it goes to the core of what the nature of the skiing community should be.

Hopefully in a few weeks we'll all be too busy cutting each other up to post silly messages like these!
post #35 of 103
ski - free - its in the Northern Selkirks and the western rockies.

I was nice and was spooning turns in the first picture. In the second picture - my wife was skiing nice tight turns then i went by doing mach 10. Then my buddy passed me! There was lots of space too.

Martin - yah its nice and friendly till you get pow! Then the arm-bars and gang-tackles come out! wheeeeeeeeeeee

post #36 of 103
I'm still unclear...etiquette suggests that snow *below* the natural traverse from lift-service belongs to people that are willing to hike *above* the traverse for more vert?

Seems to me that the lines above the traverse they earn are theirs but that their climbing gives them no greater claim on the lines below the traverse than people that traversed to it from the lift and didn't climb higher.

I'm not saying it's cool ignore the code to poach lines...scrape snow, etc.
post #37 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
I'm still unclear...etiquette suggests that snow *below* the natural traverse from lift-service belongs to people that are willing to hike *above* the traverse for more vert?
No,no. The snow doesn't "belong" to anyone except for whoever is there first. The only snow the higher traverse "gets" you is that which is above the Yahoo on the lower traverse.

Now in a perfect world if you were flashing a line down a gully and someone side stepped in half way down they'd wait for you to go by since it is technically "you're wave". Dropping in right before you would be bad form and the gods of bad ju-ju would frown upon them. But ... it happens becuase a lot of people are clueless and again there are no guarantees.

Only way to avoid question is to get there first.
post #38 of 103
Martin and jstraw:

The areas I'm describing are what I would call "walking" traverses (not exactly climbing). That means you're just putting one foot in front of the other and sort of walking/shuffling across the hill. The purpose of a walking traverse is to get further across a slope without losing vertical. The purpose of not losing vertical is to get as many turns of untracked as possible.

Now, on a walking traverse, it is always completely possible for someone to decide that they just don't want to walk. If they drop off the walking traverse and go into a *downhill* skiing traverse, they will, naturally, cross the slope much faster than the person walking. That means they will get to the further-out untracked snow much quicker than the walker. They won't get as many turns, but they'll get what they get with little or no work.

Now, I certainly never suggested ski areas should prevent anyone who's bought a ticket from doing this. The question was about "etiquette", which is essentially a generally-accepted code of behavior rather than any sort of rule. Etiquette is disappearing in nearly every aspect of life today, so it's no surprise that this would be any different.

I simply feel it's bad etiquette to slide in under someone who's walking to get a long, untracked line. I would never do it, although I know full well that it's done all the time.

That's all.
post #39 of 103
Bob - its now clearer to me. Kind of like the Alta pain train traverse. I tried finding a picture of that but don't have a good one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
Martin and jstraw:

The areas I'm describing are what I would call "walking" traverses (not exactly climbing). That means you're just putting one foot in front of the other and sort of walking/shuffling across the hill. The purpose of a walking traverse is to get further across a slope without losing vertical. The purpose of not losing vertical is to get as many turns of untracked as possible.
I simply feel it's bad etiquette to slide in under someone who's walking to get a long, untracked line. I would never do it, although I know full well that it's done all the time.

That's all.
post #40 of 103
post #41 of 103
Thread Starter 
Strangely, I didn't think of the surfing analogy when I wrote the original post (very weird as I live at the beach and my son surfs every day). Note that surfing get much worse, stupidly, where you come from (ie. local or not) plays an integral role. That said, if I were to appear at the side of a powder trail and someone was coming down, I would wait for them to pass as they are "in the line and in the groove".

therusty hit the nail it on the head for me and spoke about preserving the powder. I may not have made my initial post clear enough but this is what I was alluding to. I've had a couple of happy powder days where we found a lift-serviced powder run and been the only souls to use it for an entire morning! We simply started at one side of the run and slowly moved across (as some bears called it "farming") as we tracked it out. I'd probably do the same even if I was only going to do one run but hey, maybe that's just me - sometimes I'm just too damned polite!
post #42 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
Martin and jstraw:

The areas I'm describing are what I would call "walking" traverses (not exactly climbing). That means you're just putting one foot in front of the other and sort of walking/shuffling across the hill. The purpose of a walking traverse is to get further across a slope without losing vertical. The purpose of not losing vertical is to get as many turns of untracked as possible.

Now, on a walking traverse, it is always completely possible for someone to decide that they just don't want to walk. If they drop off the walking traverse and go into a *downhill* skiing traverse, they will, naturally, cross the slope much faster than the person walking. That means they will get to the further-out untracked snow much quicker than the walker. They won't get as many turns, but they'll get what they get with little or no work.

Now, I certainly never suggested ski areas should prevent anyone who's bought a ticket from doing this. The question was about "etiquette", which is essentially a generally-accepted code of behavior rather than any sort of rule. Etiquette is disappearing in nearly every aspect of life today, so it's no surprise that this would be any different.

I simply feel it's bad etiquette to slide in under someone who's walking to get a long, untracked line. I would never do it, although I know full well that it's done all the time.

That's all.
Ah, ok...kind of like cutting someone off in a car. Yes?
post #43 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by lennyblake
Don't sweat it, out West we know how to recognize pow noobs - they're the ones looking for their equipment while we avoid the pothole (divot) around them.
We actually use them as gates at Alta. Once, while skiing down a huge open face I used a distant, struggling neophite as a marker to judge my distance and keep my rythm. As I came up to him, on his ass, flailing around, I cut a sharp turn just above him (to stay in rythm) and dumped a huge rooster tail of snow all over the guy. He squacked and wimpered. I was kind of surprised when he hollered. I'd been thinking of him like a terrain feature, a rock or something- a mark to turn on. Sorrry.... Poor guy. Well, we've all been there, I guess

I find the best powder etiquette to be to take my snowboard and cut laterally across an untracked bowl for hundreds of yards, then do a switchyfoot, or whatever, cut all the way back, and repeat...

Anyone who drops out of a line on a designated traverse to break a down angled parallel traverse in order to get out in front ruins lines for everyone and gets soundly reprimanded at Alta. I did it exactly once- years ago. my ears are still burning...
post #44 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab
Anyone who drops out of a line on a designated traverse to break a down angled parallel traverse in order to get out in front ruins lines for everyone and gets soundly reprimanded at Alta. I did it exactly once- years ago. my ears are still burning...
What if you drop out of the travers to ski a line?
post #45 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bell
Blaise, have some patience, courtesy and understanding. The bloke might be traversing because he is still learning how to turn in powder. Everyone had to learn sometime. Or are short-bouncy-turns-down-the-fall-line powder skiers supposed to spring, fully-formed, from their mothers' wombs?!
Echo
post #46 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
What if you drop out of the travers to ski a line?
Fully acceptable and highly encouraged... as long as *your* line is the fall line.
post #47 of 103
like so.
post #48 of 103
I like skiing powder as much as anyone. But it's just not that big of an issue with me. As long as I'm skiing I'm good to go. Snow @ Goverment Camp today.
post #49 of 103
While I agree with practicing good "Etiquette", It's incumbent upon the experienced skier's to impart their knowledge of etiquette on others without belittleing and demeaning them. In rare cases it will not be possible to educate some people, but everyone should keep trying. I personaly don't have much issue with how someone ski's with the lift ticket they purchased as I don't see many people on a hill deliberately trying to piss people off (there are exceptions of course).

I'll readily admit to people in front of me "pissing me off" on many occassions, but given time to think about it, I doubt any of them even knew I was there.
post #50 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab
We actually use them as gates at Alta. Once, while skiing down a huge open face I used a distant, struggling neophite as a marker to judge my distance and keep my rythm. As I came up to him, on his ass, flailing around, I cut a sharp turn just above him (to stay in rythm) and dumped a huge rooster tail of snow all over the guy. He squacked and wimpered. I was kind of surprised when he hollered. I'd been thinking of him like a terrain feature, a rock or something- a mark to turn on. Sorrry.... Poor guy. Well, we've all been there, I guess
wow... your really cool. Im so impressed
post #51 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab
like so.
Ok, bear with me here. I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I'm seeking knowledge. In that photo, is the single file line of skiers moving to the left or to the right? What I want to know is, is the whole snow field below them for people that are moving in an uphill traverse from right to left to get to their line or is there a point at which it's ok to ski a traverse to get to untracked lines toward the left. Is the etiquette that those untracked lines should be not be shortened by a downhill traverse whatsoever?
post #52 of 103
the skiers are working their way to the left side of the picture and it's a bit uphill. The skier who left the lateral track marked "no" dropped out of the line, probably from fatigue. This is Devil's Castle and it takes a long hike to get this far. The proper thing to do is to drop straight down the fall line until you hit another main traverse. The traverses are cut by the ski patrol and serve like cross mountain trails at stretegic places to move skiers across the hill to access the best lines. Cutting across ruins the untracked fall lines and creates a bump in your rythm when skiing linked powder turns. This has less of an effect on fatter skis, but still messes up the experience some what. Do it a lot and the whole hill gets trashed.

And yeah, I'm cool. I actually didn't mean to dump snow on the guy. In a wide open powder bowl in flat light there is no visual reference of distance. You rely instead on form, linking consistant finished turns to control speed. This guy happened to supply a handy reference. He wasn't hurt,just flustered, and I was concentrating on my turns so much that it occured to me, as I got close, that I better pull up- wouldn't do to actually hit the guy. There was so much snow that day that the rooster tail was just an unintended by product. It was kind of a perfect accident. I asked if he was ok, said sorry, and went on my way. Sure was funny though...On these powder days, you're gonna get snowed on no matter what. What I fear is actually drowning. No joke.
post #53 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab
the skiers are working their way to the left side of the picture and it's a bit uphill. The skier who left the lateral track marked "no" dropped out of the line, probably from fatigue. This is Devil's Castle and it takes a long hike to get this far. The proper thing to do is to drop straight down the fall line until you hit another main traverse. The traverses are cut by the ski patrol and serve like cross mountain trails at stretegic places to move skiers across the hill to access the best lines. Cutting across ruins the untracked fall lines and creates a bump in your rythm when skiing linked powder turns. This has less of an effect on fatter skis, but still messes up the experience some what. Do it a lot and the whole hill gets trashed.

And yeah, I'm cool. I actually didn't mean to dump snow on the guy. In a wide open powder bowl in flat light there is no visual reference of distance. You rely instead on form, linking consistant finished turns to control speed. This guy happened to supply a handy reference. He wasn't hurt,just flustered, and I was concentrating on my turns so much that it occured to me, as I got close, that I better pull up- wouldn't do to actually hit the guy. There was so much snow that day that the rooster tail was just an unintended by product. It was kind of a perfect accident. I asked if he was ok, said sorry, and went on my way. Sure was funny though...On these powder days, you're gonna get snowed on no matter what. What I fear is actually drowning. No joke.
considering alta gets tracked out completely in an hour, it really doesn't matter where people exercise their god given right to ski wherever they please. im my opinion anyone who purposely sprays another skier deserves a beatdown.
post #54 of 103
I thought you looked familiar...
post #55 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab
I thought you looked familiar...
don't you mean that dakine tattoo on your forehead from my glove?
post #56 of 103
Wow, y'all need to STFU and go ski
post #57 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
Wow, so it's true about those giant skiing millipedes in Canada!
post #58 of 103
mr crab,

dude, you are gay if you think its bad that someone riding fall-line has to do little figure 8s. ill make a point of going over somebody's figure 8 love fest season now that i know how anal some of you two plankers are about it. hopefully l ill get to see the look on your face as you reach the bottom and look back at your divine creation as im slaughtering it!
post #59 of 103
You're tho butch!
So I guess the concensus of this ettiquite thread is that there is none. Reminds me of some surf breaks I used to love. There are only a few "rules" to break..
Don't stop on a traverse unless you step off it, preferably above. Be tolerant of the one or two snowboarders who are struggling along, one foot out of bindings. If they're up here, they're gamers. (I'm thinking of the Jupiter Bowl traverse in Park City)
Don't cut across the hill, you ruin lines, go more or less down the fall line.
As always, downhill rider has the right of way, they have no way of knowing your intentions.
In response to the original post, for safety, I always look up when entering a chute or whatnot from halfway. Not everybody does this, and the powder rule is basically, first there gets it.
post #60 of 103
Ettiquite scmettiquite! What is this golf and your collared shirts? NO!!! These are my thoughts on these issues adn I dont care what anyone else thinks and never have. I will ski any powder I want when I want. i will wait for noone and never have. No one person owns anything on the damn mountains and especially not the snow. All these stupid threads on secret stashes and powder ettiquite are freaking rediculous. They seriously piss me off !! I will never fight over any line I ski unless some idiot comes down after me and says , "Dude, you just poached my line" well to damn bad if you take to long at the top again I'll do it again. Ya want to start swinging, you wont need an avalanche to bury you cause I will. How is that for " ettiquite" how stupid!!! I always hated this dumb shit about skiers. Well blow me and your freaking ettiquite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:
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