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Question: Did Look Pivots get discontinued?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I seem to remember some talk last year that they were discontinuing... and looks like the new binding is the PX ? Can anyone shed some light on this?

I like the pivots... i hope they didn't really kill them.
-David
post #2 of 15
They killed them. I have heard the the racing bindings are still Pivots, but have no verification of this.
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
They were good bindings... why the f*ck? And the Rossi branded ones as well, I suspect?
thnks Steve,
David
post #4 of 15
Both rossi/look pivotes were killed

I have ~dozen pivots in the house & single pair of new PXs

the buzz that I keep hearing about them is that they wanted to address 2 issues:

1) the pivot heel tends to lose forward pressure & needed to have an eye keep on it. I found this was only a minor issue & It never really bothered me ; I tend to crank the forward pressure tight anyway (skier issue)

2) the new heel is more like a traditional step in (think marker, soli, ty,) & has more of a range of adjustment. This version is supposed to be simpler to mount & adjust initailly (most of use would not care & perform ourselves). this will make selling the set-up easier/faster esp. over phone & web.

I was sad to see the pivot go, but saw some folks really skiing the new binding HARD last season. I think I'll prop. buy a single pair & see how they go. On the higher end: WC/FKS bindings are the same. the new PX is supposed to be stiffer & lost the forward pressure screw, not it looks lize a tyrolia or soli interms of clamping the forward pressure on a plate
post #5 of 15
Lots of shops still have last years versions. The race bindings are the older, tubular
strut "Look" heels, for wider skis you have to bend the brakes.
post #6 of 15
look is till tooling up to make more of the PX metal world cup bindings there are some on the WC right now but that's a lot of metal work to do compared to the ease of building a civilian version plastic mold

the PX is lighter than the previous pivot binding plus has all or more of the release/retention elasticity so really no performance loss

as more and more consumers are beaten with the integrated system stick the need for the short mounting of the pivot becomes redundant
post #7 of 15
waxman, for me it wasn't the short mounting distance (any more), although it was at one time. Rather, I like having the pivot point of the toe release motion being on the tibial axis. Without a turntable, this isn't possible, and there is therefore radial force applied to the tibia that isn't otherwise applied.

The real issue, as I understand it, was that consumers didn't like the lack of a real positive "click in" experience. That was the discussion for years. And yet it seems that they were pretty popular, especially when they joined forces with Dynastar and Rossi.
post #8 of 15
I don't know the numbers or anything, but it seems like the Pivot was popular with experts/people into ski gear whereas Salomon seems to be more popular overall with a range of skiiers. Just from my observations skiing around western Canada.
post #9 of 15
With the advent of free flexing bindings the short mounting distance isn't as important as it used to be. The only thing I didn't like about the Look was the piston heel, It was a PITA to get out of and once I fell on one when it was cocked, ouch.
post #10 of 15
Dang it, I took all my laterature home, and I'm in the office now. I'm a Lange/Dynastar/Look rep. The package that they sent me a couple of weeks ago had a couple of pages dedicated to explaining why the PX is better than the Pivot. Personally, I've been a huge fan of the pivots for a very long time. Any shop that sells Looks should have the literature in-house for you to look at.

The old argument for the Pivot was the fact that the heel pivoted under the tib/fib and ankle, which made them safer and release more smoothly. They said that that isn't the case anymore because of the high tech AFDs. They also said that more forward pressure makes the ski react better, and the PX uses 40# vs 30# for the Pivot. There was also some words to the fact that the new toe piece is better at releasing in an upward, diagonal direction.

There were some numerical stats about releasing and power production, but I don't remember them.
post #11 of 15
The LOOK turntables provided the best anti-shock in the business. You could hit something sideways and the toe and heel would turn a little and then snap back to center if you did not continue to push them. Likewise, if you hit some weird snow and pitched forward the heel pieces allowed your boot heels to rise up off the ski and then snap back down if your body did not continue forward. I found this essential when skiing in the consistently inconsistent Montana snow. Sometimes it is much more dangerous to come out of your binding when you don't really need to.

All the other new bindings I have tried have an "either in or out" quality that never lets you know your ski is coming off until after it happens. In my personal opinion the LOOK turntables saved me knee damage on countless occasions.
post #12 of 15
There was a discussion about it a few months ago and the arguments for the change were that it meant more forward pressure and a tighter coupling between the boot and ski. But personally I like the lower forward pressure, it reduced the dead zone under the boot and combined with the shorter mounting footprint let the ski flex smoothly along the entire length. And as for the tighter coupling, there have been one or two stories of the mounting plate bending (when abused) but I have never had a problem with this, and the new design has a much narrower track so it will be subject to much more load than the pivots so I don't really see how it can claim this. When the pivots first came out Look said they had the tightest coupling on the market but and now they are saying it has been fixed with the new design so I am a bit skeptical.

Well I have my 3 sets of P12s and a set of FKS155 so I am set for a while, although I may buy another set or two to store for future skis if I can find some for the right price. But by all accounts the price on ebay jumped up from the news of their discontinuation. I can't think of any other ski equipment which went up in price when they became obsolete.
post #13 of 15
"was that consumers didn't like the lack of a real positive "click in" experience"
i still do demos where people step in and say "is this thing on" when they try pivots
but the real kicker was when Rossi and to a lesser extent Dynastar started making all their WC athletes ski the whole package
the athletes were used to stepping into salomon or marker with DINs of 24 or 30 and hearing a loud "clunk" so the relatively "soft" sound of the FKS/ZR was alittle disconcerting for them
someody with more time than me might want to go back and watch WC races for prerelease and see where all the brands stand
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiski
Well I have my 3 sets of P12s and a set of FKS155 so I am set for a while, although I may buy another set or two to store for future skis if I can find some for the right price. But by all accounts the price on ebay jumped up from the news of their discontinuation. I can't think of any other ski equipment which went up in price when they became obsolete.

Yeah, I picked up another new pair as well, for a total of 3 sets for me and 3 for my husband. Hopefully that will last us for a while, because I haven't seen any other alpine bindings on the market that I'd really want to buy.
post #15 of 15
I have the Rossi Axial's (this years) on my z9's. I have had the heel prereliece a few times in the bumps, and then found them hard to step into afterwards. I know of others who have had similar experiences. I also had a recall on the brake unit which I took care of (rossi was great about that). Hopefully Look-Rossi has ironed out the wrinkles in the latest production.

RW
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