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Paraffin wax vs. no Wax - Page 3

post #61 of 78
post #62 of 78
Wow! Don't try that with your fluors!
post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruxpercnd View Post
- Paraffin is actually recommended for a ski's first few wax jobs because the molecule is smaller than fluorocarbon and penetrates deeper into the base structure.

- Because paraffin is a long stringy molecule, it is relatively delicate and is easily broken. That is why paraffin wax doesn't last as long as fluorocarbon wax.

- The fluorocarbon wax has a more complicated molecular structure (take the long string and add branches). Therefore, fluorocarbon is more durable. So, if you rarely wax your skis, use fluorocarbon wax for a longer lasting wax job.
These statements are either false or partially false. I don't have the time to explain why at the moment - sorry.
post #64 of 78
I can'treply either because I've been drinking a bit, but i hope who ever wrote that was drinking more than a bit, and never took organic chemistry.

From here Dr. D will take over.....
post #65 of 78
Paraffin


Fluoro




post #66 of 78
I don't know if it matters, but the "bad chemistry" post was written about a a year and a half ago.

Both hydrocarbon and fluorocarbon molecules can, of course, be all sorts of different sizes and shapes, like methane or propane (hydrocarbon gases with little tiny molecules), rubber (bigger hydrocarbon molecules), fluorocarbon gases, Teflon, etc.
post #67 of 78
Excellent info, thank you! This is so helpful especially nowdays when majority of us try to save some $$$...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruxpercnd View Post

My wife is always throwing away big candles and I am always pulling them out of the trash. I hot wax my skis every day that I go skiing and they smell good too! I have regular ski wax, but because I like to have fresh wax everyday, I use the cheap stuff.

I think if you do more research you will find that:

- Ski wax is mostly paraffin.

- Paraffin is a hydrocarbon, which is a long stringy molecular chain.

- Paraffin is actually recommended for a ski's first few wax jobs because the molecule is smaller than fluorocarbon and penetrates deeper into the base structure.

- Because paraffin is a long stringy molecule, it is relatively delicate and is easily broken. That is why paraffin wax doesn't last as long as fluorocarbon wax.

- The fluorocarbon wax has a more complicated molecular structure (take the long string and add branches). Therefore, fluorocarbon is more durable. So, if you rarely wax your skis, use fluorocarbon wax for a longer lasting wax job.

- Fluorocarbon wax also is more water repellant, theoretically creating less friction and faster skiing.

- Ski wax, which is a combination of hydrocarbon and fluorocarbon molecules is difficult to make because the two molecules really don't like to play together. This is why ski wax is a cost item. Frankly, I think that all the hoopla about ski wax is important if you are a competition racer or if you are really sensitive to wax differences.

I don't care about going full speed when skiing, so the paraffin is fast enough for me. It has worked fine. By the way, if your skis get too sticky and you happen to have a Hearshey bar on you... rub it on your skis to get down the hill - most chocolate has lots of paraffin in it to keep it solid.

I carry soft fluorocarbon wax with me in a can or in liquid form for a quick fix if my skis start to stick. Actually, because I always have a fresh wax job, I don't have much of a problem, I mostly carry it to help my friends who never wax their skis. The area where I ski started offering fast $5 outside wax jobs using a buffing wheel, so I don't even carry the wax much anymore.

If you do your own hot waxing, make sure to have the iron on the lowest setting to melt the wax and be careful not to overheat the ski base material. Use just enough heat to melt and spread the wax.
post #68 of 78

I WAX MY SKIS 10-15 TIMES A YEAR AND MY SKIS ARE ALWAYS FASTER THAN MY NON WAXING FRIENDS. SOME PEOPLE JUST WAX AND DON'T SCRAPE AND THEIR SKIS ARE'NT ANY FASTER THAN NON WAXED SKIS. SO IF YOU WAX, YOU SHOULD SCRAPE.

post #69 of 78
^^^

Actually, sometimes when I'm lazy, I'll just wax and Fiberline. Then my skis speed up as I'm doing my warmup runs as the surface wax wears off, and when I'm finished they are almost just like they are when I've scraped and brushed.
post #70 of 78

Well at least we're past the bad chemistry post...

post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

Well at least we're past the bad chemistry post...


Well crap.  Before this thread I was planning on switching from RaceWax to my moms old canning wax (Scrape the jelly off first)

post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

Well at least we're past the bad chemistry post...


Well crap.  Before this thread I was planning on switching from RaceWax to my moms old canning wax (Scrape the jelly off first)

 

:eek no no no do not scrape the jelly off!   It goes on the ski hot hot hot then gets scraped off! 

post #73 of 78

Hmmm..... wow, this is an old thread, so old in fact, that when it was made, I didn't yet know enough to tell the wax snobs here that paraffin is a fine wax between 20 and 30 degrees, and when mixed with yellow, is excellent from 25 to 40 degrees, making the warm snow characteristics of yellow wax considerably more durable.  Like any wax, paraffin has a temperature range in which it is most effective for decreasing drag on skis.

post #74 of 78

The only MSDS I could find for ski wax.

Note under First Aid, CAN BE REMOVED WITH VEGETABLE/MINERAL OIL. So, can we use Pam as a wax remover?

 

MSDS Number

BLPGB

National Stock Number

9160-00-903-3999

 

Product Name

SKI WAX

Manufacturer

WEISSNER F H CO

Product Identification

Product ID:SKI WAX
MSDS Date:01/01/1987
FSC:9160
NIIN:00-903-3999
MSDS Number: BLPGB

Responsible Party

WEISSNER F H CO

159 LAKESIDE AVE

BURLINGTON VT 05401-4931

US

Emergency Phone: 802-543-2251

Info Phone: 802-543-2251

Cage: MO195

Contractor

WEISSNER F H CO

BURLINGTONVT 05401-4931

US

802-543-2251

Cage: MO195

Ingredients

PARAFFIN WAX

CAS: 8002-74-2

RTECS: RV0350000

Fraction By Weight: >99%

OSHA PEL2 MG/M3 (FUME)

ACGIH TLV: 2 MG/M3 (FUME); 9192

Hazards

Routes of Entry: Inhalation:NO Skin:YES Ingestion:NO
Reports of Carcinogenicity:NTP:NO IARC:NO OSHA:NO
Health Hazards Acute and Chronic:SKIN:BURNS FROM MOLTEN WAX.
INHALATION: SMOKE AND SOOT MAY CAUSE IRRITATION OF UPPER
RESPIRATORY TRACT. INGESTION: NON-TOXIC.
Explanation of Carcinogenicity:NONE
Effects of Overexposure:THERMAL BURNS & IRRITATION OF UPPER RESPIRATORY
TRACT.
Medical Cond Aggravated by Exposure:NONE KNOWN

First Aid

First Aid:EYES:FLUSH WITH WATER FOR 15 MIN. SKIN:COOL HOT MELTED WAX IN
COLD WATER. DON'T USE SOLVENTS, CAN BE REMOVED WITH
VEGETABLE/MINERAL OIL. SEEK MEDICAL HELP FOR BURNS. INHALATION OF
SMOKE:REMOVE TO FRES H AIR, GIVE CPR IF NOT BREATHING. INGESTION:NO
TREATMENT REQUIRED.

Fire Fighting

Flash Point Method:COC
Flash Point:435F,224C
Extinguishing Media:DRY CHEMICAL & CO2.
Fire Fighting Procedures:DON'T USE WATER STREAM TO EXTINGUISH WAX FIRES
AS WATER MAY BOIL VIOLENTLY CAUSING AN EXPLOSION OF HOT WAX.
Unusual Fire/Explosion Hazard:WAX MAY CATCH FIRE WHEN MELTED.

Accidental Release

Spill Release Procedures:WEAR PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. ALLOW LIQUID TO
COOL & SOLIDIFY. SWEEP/SHOVEL INTO DOT-APPROVED CONTAINERS.

Handling

Handling and Storage Precautions:STORE IN COOL, DRY PLACE.
Other Precautions:CONTAINERS, EVEN THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN EMPTIED, WILL
RETAIN PRODUCT RESIDUE. ALWAYS OBEY HAZARD WARNINGS & HANDLE EMPTY
CONATINERS AS IF THEY WERE FULL. ALWAYS MELT WAX OVER WATER,
PREFERABLY A DOUBLE BOILER.

Exposure Controls

Respiratory Protection:NOT ORDINARILY REQUIRED.
Ventilation:LOCAL
Protective Gloves:MITTENS WHILE HANDLING HOT/MOLTEN WAX.
Eye Protection:GOGGLES WHEN HANDLING MOLTEN WAX.
Other Protective Equipment:LONG-SLEEVED SHIRT, TROUSERS, SAFETY SHOES,
APRON & EYEWASH/SAFETY SHOWER.
Work Hygienic Practices:DO NOT OVERHEAT WHEN MELTING WAX, IT WILL CATCH
FIRE. WEAR PROTECTIVE GLOVES AND GOGGLES WHEN WORKING WITH MOLTEN
WAX.
Supplemental Safety and Health
MFR IS OUT OF BUSINESS AND IS UNLISTED. INFORMATION PRESENTED HEREIN IS
ACCURATE AND RELIABLE TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE AND BELIEF BUT
IS NOT GUARANTEED TO BE SO. IT IS THE USER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO
TAKE ALL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS AS MAY BE NECESSARY. WE HEREBY DISCLAIM
ALL LIABILITY WITH RESPECT TO IT'S USE.

Chemical Properties

HCC:N1
Boiling Pt:B.P. Text:>600F,>316C
Melt/Freeze Pt:M.P/F.P Text:140F,60C
Vapor Pres:<0.1
Spec Gravity:0.92
Solubility in Water:INSOLUBLE
Appearance and Odor:WHITE SOLID STICK, ODORLESS

Stability

Stability Indicator/Materials to Avoid:YES
STRONG OXIDIZING MATERIALS.
Stability Condition to Avoid:OPEN FLAME
Hazardous Decomposition Products:CO & CO2

Disposal

Waste Disposal Methods:DISPOSE IN ACCORDANCE WITH FEDERAL, STATE, &
LOCAL REGULATIONS.

Disclaimer (provided with this information by the compiling agencies):
This information is formulated for use by elements of the Department
of Defense. The United States of America in no manner whatsoever,
expressly or implied, warrants this information to be accurate and
disclaims all liability for its use. Any person utilizing this
document should seek competent professional advice to verify and
assume responsibility for the suitability of this information to their
particular situation.

post #75 of 78
I won't even let PAM on my pans.
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I won't even let PAM on my pans.

 

There's no such thing as bad cooking spray - we just have to figure out whose pans it's for.   :p 

post #77 of 78

I think I should start by saying that ski waxes for warmer temperatures, are literally, just parafin based hydrocarbons, the same as a candle. I your skiing in warm conditions and don't mind clogging the pores of your ski base with candle wax, candle wax would be a fast option. Although, in warm conditions, the snow is usually warmer and wetter, so using a parafin isnt actually a very fast option, you oukd want to look into the more expensive flouro-carbon waxes.

post #78 of 78

@staffpro

 

 

<also no one has answered this question yet, will a ski waxed with paraffin go faster than a ski that is not waxed at all......???>

 

A non-waxed ski will be faster in cold snow than a ski waxed with straight paraffin as paraffin is very soft and soft wax is easily penetrated by sharp cold snow crystals and

your ride will feel sluggish until that soft wax wears off; then you are back to a bare base which will feel faster. However, riding a bare base abrades the base surface due to the high friction of the snow crystals and the skis will get slower and slower the more you ride on a no-longer lubricated dry base. Also, a base waxed with soft paraffin will pick up dirt, pollen and grease rather than repel those particles and, as you roll along, the accumulation of these particles will result in progressively slower bases.

 

Waxes designed for ski and snowboarding are mixtures of paraffin and other additives designed to give a suitable blend of surface abrasion resistance and low internal friction for the desired combination of speed, durability and resistance to dirt absorption.

 

However soft wax, like straight paraffin can, at times, feel fast on very slippery, warmer snows as the softer the wax the lower the internal friction of the wax. Think of wax as being like a deck of cards, the first card meets the friction of the surface that you placed the cards on (surface friction) and, as you push the cards, they slip against each other (internal friction). Hard wax has excellent abrasion resistance which reduces the surface friction from the snow (and dirt) crystals, however hard waxes have high internal friction and can feel slow on warm slippery snow. Conversely the softer the wax, the lower the internal friction of the wax and the faster the wax will feel on slippery snows. So yes, straight paraffin can feel fast in warm slippery snow; that is, until it picks up a load of dirt, grease or pollen ... or when its gone.

 

The best wax selection is the blended wax that is just hard enough to resist the penetration of snow crystals, but soft enough to allow for good internal friction release. So, pertaining to saving a few pennies by waxing straight paraffin; yes you can .... but why?  Didn't you just pay $75+ for your ticket, fill the car with gas and drive all the way up there? Are you really going to try to save half a dollar per wax job by using low grade, dirt absorbing, low abrasion resistant straight paraffin?

 

By using a cheap, straight paraffin, you are waxing your $800+ skis with a low-grade wax that will attract dirt and/or wear off quickly. If you properly wax with a true base prep wax such as Renew, and a true glide wax such as Zoom, you are creating a combination that offers excellent resistance to abrasion (resulting in wax durability), excellent acceleration and open top end speed.

 

In the end a proper wax job -- with actual ski waxes --- will last longer, make you faster, make you smile more and will keep your skis maintained properly over the long run; in a nutshell ... use waxes designed for skiing and boarding.

 

Happy Gliding!


Edited by Dominator Tom - 12/11/15 at 9:56am
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