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GS Race Stock vs over cut

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Our masters coach told me to get a pair of over cut (r=15-16m) GS skis insted of FIS Race Stock r=21m. He told me its so much easier to carve on master race courses with over cut GS skis. With Race Stock you have to skidd in order to make the gates properly. How about me trying to use my Slalom skis at GS? Is that completely out of the Q? Dont take in consideration the rules, just is it possible and will I be quick enough?
post #2 of 20
Racers will often use SL skis on GS courses, if the run includes tighter gates and the speeds are moderate. Racers in the flat-land regions will often see GS courses that include a tight group of turns and never create higher speeds.

Hope that helps,

post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks barrettscv, just what I suspected. When I was teaching last year if I had a chanse I had a go at the Jr GS practise cource at our hill with my SL skis and allways with great success. I could carve all the way through and the coaches ceared and praised my technique.... look kidds, that the way you should ski
post #4 of 20
It's important to note that official FIS events would require skis that meet GS regulations. But "citizen" racing is usually free of regulation and similtaneously slower and tighter than elite GS race course.

post #5 of 20
It depends a lot on how tight they set your GS courses. You certainly could use a slalom, and if the course is set so that you won't get high speeds anyways, you probably won't be at a disadvantage. However my choice would be to get a longer retail GS or skicross ski for better stability at speed.

If you're looking at Head skis, look at the i.XRC 1200 SW and i.Race. They have the same dimensions, the i.Race may or may not be stiffer (not sure about that). They're available in 170, 177, 184 (and shorter, but your your purposes I wouldn't go shorter than 170) and radius is 15.4 @170, 15.6 @177, not sure about 184.

And of course if I were you, I'd keep the race stock GS for freeskiing, cause thats' just fun
post #6 of 20
Check out what racers are usually freeskiing on or running gates when their coaches aren't watching them...it's always their SL ski
post #7 of 20
CanukInstructor, sorry I didn't see your post. Mine was not meant to contradict that. The XRC 1200 SW is probably EXACTLY what would be best as a 'Cheeter GS'.
post #8 of 20
These skis fit the description of "over-cut" skis for Masters racing;

Atomic GS:9 16m @ 180cm
Dynastar Speed Course 17m @ 178cm
Fischer Worldcup RC 16m @ 175cm
Head Worldcup iRace 15.4m @ 170cm
Salomon Equipe GC 17.5m @ 178cm
Volkl GS Racing 19m @180cm


post #9 of 20
Barrett's got a good list there, but I would supplement it with the following:
Replace the GS:9 with the GS:11m (retail, not the FIS compliant or race stock) 18.5 @ 176
For someone used to race stock, the GS:9 is going to feel lacking. For a mid ground, look at the LT:11 (17m @ 170) or SX:11 (16 @ 170). But I would recommend the GS:11 for your purposes tdk.

Also, it's no longer made this year (for reasons unknown to me), but last year's Rossignol 9X Oversize is another non-FIS compliant ski that would fit in with these nicely (although a little softer than ones such as the GS:11 and i.Race).
post #10 of 20
The "over cut" (also sometimes called "cheater") GS skis seem to have a pretty significant following. It depends on how GS courses are typically set where you are (i.e. are they really "not-all-that-giant slaloms").

As mentioned, length might be an obstacle to using your SL skis in a GS course. It's not that unusual to see 155 cm SL skis, which would scare me a bit at GS speeds.

Incidentally, there's no rule against using SL skis in a Masters GS race, except FIS events. Note that ordinary USSA Masters races are not FIS events. So long as you don't leave the United States, there are no length or radius restrictions. Last year, there was one set of international races at Sun Valley, but that event isn't in the US this year. Also note if you somehow do enter a race that stops you from using SL skis, the same rules would also stop you from using the over cut GS skis.
post #11 of 20
Fischer WC SC. Enough said.

post #12 of 20
I will contradict real9999 and say the Fischer WC RC. The RC is the ski with the 16 meter radius at a 175. They are built very well, and are fast. In turny courses they are faster than a race stock GS ski, just because you can effortlessly carve every turn. I have a pair of them that I use periodically, and I love them. I still prefer a race stock GS ski for racing, but the Fischers are a lot of fun to ski on. I feel that the WC SC will turn way too sharp for what youre doing, thus causing you to double turn and loose precious time and engery in your turns.
post #13 of 20
I had the same thoughts last week regarding using SL or cross type skis for some of these not-so-GS-races. I have a pair of 2002 180 cm. Atomic Betarace 9.16 skis which I used a few times in the past.

I believe they have an ~16M radius, and they seemed to work pretty well. But I was thinking that something like an SX:11, or a 180-185 cheater GS ski would just be a little smoother and damper in a GS course than the Slalom 9.16's. So I went and grabbed a pair of P60 GC skis on eBay. But the deal sort of fell through.

So now I'm trying to decide if I should just stick with the 9.16's as long as the edges and bases are still good, or should I keep looking for a 180cm. SX:11 or similar cross ski. It seems like the trend in GS skis is increasingly wider skis: 67mm on 2006 Volkl GS skis - so my 62mm 9.16's are making me feel like I'm missing out on something.
post #14 of 20
Hello all, I have a comment and / or a request for validation.

How about a "junior" race stock like the Salomon GS LAB in a 175 110-66-93 (19.2m) or a Nordica Dobermann 176 (19.?m). I felt that I could get all of the benefits of a "cheater" GS ski like SX:11 in a 180 111-66-97 (18m) while still being able to release the turn with a bit more ease and keeping it down the fall line a bit more. That's why I got a pair of the LABs.

I will grant that since the snow han't flown in Buffalo yet, I cannot speak to the accuracy of the hypothesis. I can say that I had a ton of fun on my 03-04 SX:11s last year in tight GS courses.

post #15 of 20
There seems to me several layers of "race" skis

1) True FIS - World Cup skis on the international race circuit. Supplied and maintained by factory racer-chaser personnel. Personalized for the user and course requirements.

2) Handmade FIS compliant raceroom skis sometimes available at retail. A more generic version of the above. Example: Fischer Worldcup GS.

3) FIS inspired retail skis made in volume. Example: Atomic GS:11

4) Overcut skis made in volume. Example: Fischer Worldcup RC

5) Raceroom Supercross handmade skis, unregulated versions of raceroom GS skis.

6) Skier-cross models made in volume: Atomic Supercross B5

These categories will overlap, especially for retail models.

post #16 of 20
Fischer World Cup RC, Race ski with bigger side cut, unless you are an ex-world cupper you really will be faster on this type of ski.
Good luck.
post #17 of 20
Still looking for an answer to this aspect though: Why has the trend in GS skis been toward wider and wider skis. Some GS race stock skis now have equal or wider midsections (67mm for the Volkl GS) than Cross skis. I'm sure the extra width must give the ski more stability at speed while sacrificing little if nothing in quickness.

So other than being mandated by FIS, what reason would there be to consider the longer radius GS ski for citizen type racing vs. a Cross ski? I guess the GS ski is a damper, more stable ride, but it that ever enough reason to sacrifice the better sidecut of a "cheater GS" ski for the vast majority of racers who are able to make that choice?
post #18 of 20
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
I will contradict real9999 and say the Fischer WC RC.
Oops, yeah that's the ski I meant. Tons of fun.

post #19 of 20
Originally Posted by carvemeister
Still looking for an answer to this aspect though: Why has the trend in GS skis been toward wider and wider skis.
Boot-out, I think. Generally not as big a concern to ordinary mortals as it might be to Bode Miller.

So other than being mandated by FIS, what reason would there be to consider the longer radius GS ski for citizen type racing vs. a Cross ski?
[Citizen or masters]: The choice of sidecut radius isn't an entirely scientific matter of "this-is-GS-this-is-the-best-sidecut." It depends somewhat on user style and preference, as well as the type of course. Note that WC-level racers typically use skis with larger-radius sidecuts than the rules permit (25m+ vs. 21m). I can't claim to be any sort of authority on identifying the variables, but all other things being equal:
- straighter course = less sidecut (kind of obvious, I think)
- faster course (even if the turns are just tight) = less sidecut (more speed, more inclination)
- skier who angulates more = less sidecut.

At the end of the day, I don't know if there's necessarily a ton of non-cosmetic differences between some of the high-end cross skis and the "cheater" GS skis.
post #20 of 20
Great answer. Thanks!
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