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Full Face Helmet

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Well,
I have had too many very close calls the past few years, my head comming to a sudden stop against a tree or rock is starting to worry me? So I have been helmet shopping. i will not be wearing this all the time, just when doing (Some of the things I do)
The cheap (High end) ski helmets do not feel like they offer the kind of protection that I need. I tried on the Giro Mad Max today, I did not like the way it felt. So I did some more helmet shopping.
I believe I want to spend my risky skiing sessions in this helmet

http://www.helmetcity.com/page/HC/P...vfxrairrabidtc3

There are many variations from different manufacturers. The Shoei just fits best.
Can anyone give me a reason why I would want a Ski? Specific Full Face helmet over a high end Motocross or Snowmobile helmet.
Weight difference is 300g.

Snug fit and protection? They are not even on the same planet.
post #2 of 20
Two reasons might be ventilation and goggle fit/retention - most ski helmets have adjustable ventilation systems around the shell, plus a google clip at the back.

I started wearing a helmet this year (not full face though), like you I thought I'd just wear it occasionally but ended up wearing it all the time - it's warm, keeps the sun off my head, and just becomes second nature.
post #3 of 20
I think other than possibly fogging, the only reason not to wear a Shoei on the hill is so people won't laugh at you. It seems over-kill, but if your going down chutes at 70mph next to rocks, maybe you need over-kill.
post #4 of 20
You may check out adding a slalom guard to a race helmet for a bit more protection without all of that weight.

But, there are pro/con issues to everything. I have often wondered if the "leverage" effect of a slalom guard would wrench your neck in a fall while booming down a groomer for instance and you started to roll?

If you are going that "extreme" sounds like you need more than helmet protection.
post #5 of 20
That thing is FIVE POUNDS. I'd be worried about adding that kind of weight to my head from a balance perspective and from the perspective of the kinds of falls you can take in skiing. I can see the need for this helmet if a large metal object might land on you, but if you think of a fall like Hermann Maier's famous one, you are flipping around quite a bit. I'd think the extra stress on your neck with this would be dangerous.

Also, everyone would think you were a newbie to skiing, which is quite secondary, but still worth thinking about.
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
That thing is FIVE POUNDS. I'd be worried about adding that kind of weight to my head from a balance perspective and from the perspective of the kinds of falls you can take in skiing.

Shell Construction: Super-lightweight Advanced Integrated Matrix Plus (AIM+) shell
No-clog mouthpiece, 3D Removable Liner System. Removable and washable nose filter and chin strap sleeves.
Weight: 2.6 lbs/1310 grams (approx)
Standard: DOT-218, Snell-M2000

It is well ventilated, but in such a way that requires airflow (When you are moving, It is also aerodynamically designed not to lift or drag @ High speed (Off Road) high speed.
I have not done 70mph in rock chutes, but 50 off piste near rocks and in Sierra trees is a common occurrence. I like to play chicken (Cut it close) to trees and rocks.

Still thinking about it.
post #7 of 20
Can the Bears be listed on your insurance policy as beneficiaries?
post #8 of 20
As a long time motorcycle rider, I have the same issue with ski helmets. Better than nothing. But little protection from impacts to the face, the sides are leather for headphones instead of ABS/foam for temple/ear protection, and the rear is too high to keep the neck from levering. Lot like those "soup bowls" that Harley riders favor.

Problem is that ski helmets are knockoffs from bicycle helmets; emphasis on lightness and ventilation. Which makes sense until you're skiing trees or chutes...
post #9 of 20
Quite a few pro freeskiers wear Moto Helmets, with the advent of snowmobile accessed backcountry many pros just keep their snowmobile helmet on.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom
Quite a few pro freeskiers wear Moto Helmets, with the advent of snowmobile accessed backcountry many pros just keep their snowmobile helmet on.
See now thats what I have seen. I did not ask what helmet model they were wearing, but it was obvious to me that they are not using somthing (Ski Specific)

BTW I do not profess to be A (Pro Freeskier) but I do spend time in the same terrain.
I am still leaning heavily towards the VFX-R Helmet; I may give up on the (Troy Lee Design RABDID DOG) and go with something more subdued to keep down the Gaper factor

Still thinking about this one.



http://www.helmetcity.com/page/HC/CTGY/vfx-rairsolids
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
You may check out adding a slalom guard to a race helmet for a bit more protection without all of that weight.

But, there are pro/con issues to everything. I have often wondered if the "leverage" effect of a slalom guard would wrench your neck in a fall while booming down a groomer for instance and you started to roll?
Slalom guard is NOT good for freeskiing. If you crash on your face it digs into the snow with risk of serious neck injury.
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele-Swede
Slalom guard is NOT good for freeskiing. If you crash on your face it digs into the snow with risk of serious neck injury.
Wouldn't the jaw guard or whatever on this motocross helmet he is looking at do the same thing?
post #13 of 20
I don't think so. Or the risk would be much smaller at least.
On a MX/Freeskiing/DH-MTB helmet the part protecting the face is much wider.
On a SL helmet it's usually just a bar...

I remember the Swedish ski-school assosiation banning the slalom guard in lessons for young kids. That's 15 years ago though, at least....
post #14 of 20
I would caution that the feeling of safety that a DOT helmet may provide is an illussion. If you hit something hard, say a tree or rock outcropping at the speeds you mention the most the helmet will do is make the clean-up easier for the ski patrol. Most ski deaths are due to severe head injury but there are plenty of other vital organs that can ruin your day if they get damaged. However the chin gaurd will come in handy if you start dropping air, a knee to the orbital bones is NO FUN!!
post #15 of 20
Having a drink while wearing it is a little chancy. Cell phones are right out. Ice can collect in an icicle beard. They are noticeably larger to pack for travel.

Get flames.
post #16 of 20
I have the same reaction as some other people, on various random points:

- If you are skiing in such a way that you're likely to need this much protection, you're also fairly likely to do significant damage to some part of yourself other than your head. Maybe not as life-threatening as a head injury, but it's not out of the question.

- Slalom jawguards aren't very good at protecting you from anything other than slalom gates. If you fall on your face, they generally will push the helmet down, which isn't so good in itself, and will allow your nose to scrape the snow.

- In the old days (like 60s and 70s), helmets that people wore for ski racing generally weren't derived from bike helmets but from motorcycle helmets. I still have one somewhere. The weight was a real danger. I know of one specific instance in which it at least seemed the helmet did more harm than good (paralyzing kneck injury).
post #17 of 20

Marker M3 helmets with softer foam...

Marker's M3 line is supposed to have a softer foam, more like a couple ww_kayak helmets I have demoed. Will have to feel to believe...
post #18 of 20
So why hasn't anyone marketed the Michelin man suit for skiers now that air-bag technology is widespread? Would float you in an avalanche, too.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostcamber
So why hasn't anyone marketed the Michelin man suit for skiers now that air-bag technology is widespread? Would float you in an avalanche, too.
I don't know if you were serious, but the ABS airbag backpack has been with us for a while http://www.abssystem.com/ The price of entry is just a bit higher than a beacon ($550 - $750). If these do what the studies suggest, increasing survival to 95%, I would rather bet my life on an airbag than a beacon. OTOH I'd rather be a perfect judge of risk than rely on anything mechanical. Since perfection is elusive, it doesn't look like a bad idea. One of these days, we are going to be carrying so much gear we won't even be able to move.

The video of this avalanche protection system is interesting here: Video
post #20 of 20

helmets, body armor

Agree that slalom jaw guard is a bad idea for several reasons. Including packing dangerous amounts of soft snow against the face. Full face motorcycle helmets have a lower guard that doesn't project past visor, so less of an issue, but unclear how no visor would affect this.

This deal about weight and neck injuries is complicated. Statistics show that overall, motorcyle helmets save lots of heads AND necks. And I've personally seen a cracked head sans helmet attached to a very dead rider. Makes a believer out of you real fast. If helmets will save you at 30-60 mph on asphalt, likely they'll do the same against a chute rock at half that speed.

On the other hand, heavier helmet does increase stress on a pivoting skull. So real question is whether most ski head injuries are impact or whiplash. I'd guess impact, but would still look for as light a helmet as possible, especially for kids.

Seem to recall an article in the news about this, in which independent tests showed current ski helmets gave little protection against side, back impact, neck injuries you'd get in skiiing, but did help with branches, stuff to face. I'll try to track it down.

Helmets obviously are irrelevant for body injuries. But have any of you hard chargers considered body armor? These days very common on the road, made of articulated Kevlar and foam, super light, less bulky than football pads, and flexible. You put it on under your jacket/pants. Some versions are like a net undershirt. On a bike, I never leave home without it. It'd work for high risk journeys down cliffs, through trees, and not restrict motion significantly. Just a thought.
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