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Thread Starter 
apologies to Weems for the Hijacked thread. Hopefully the irrelevant discussion can migrate over here.

My 1st PMTS lesson was at Breckenridge in April 2003 (my 2nd ski outing) and one of the first things I was shown was the phantom move.

This is the perverbial lift(lighten) and tip. I had already discovered hockey stops and did that with direct or active rotation of my femurs in my hips, via classic rotation. I liked how easy the phantom move allowed parallel turns, but said to my instructor that 'well you can't do a hockey stop that way'. I suppose some posters here by what they often say believe like I did on my 2nd ski outing. But my instructor promptly showed me a hockey stop done with the phantom move. It was much smoother and balanced looking than the active rotation kind of hockey stop. How is this type of 180 degree rotation done in PMTS when the system seems to knock rotation or even reject rotation to some people?

The answer is in the lateral tipping of the inside foot. When you laterally tip your inside foot 2 things (well more actually, especially if you learn to tip it with the force Arcmeister makes you do) happen. One, you disrupt your balance and create a lateral falling to the side of the foot that is laterally tipping toward it's little toe edge (LTE). The 2nd thing that happens is that your knee on that leg will point out and an opening between your legs will appear. (an O frame)

Anyway, the short and simple is, if you maintain some hip tension in your hip rotator cups, this foot tipping that moves your knee out makes the other knee/foot want to rotate in to match. If you're sking a carve you can release this pressure by just letting the body fall the direction of the lateral tipping and the ouside leg will match the angles. This makes the knees parallel again and the hip tension is back to neutral at that point. But, if you rather leave that outside ski flat and don't allow it to edge, there will be a very strong rotary torque applied to that leg to match the knee angle created by the tipping. If you play with this you can almost turn in place. This resultant rotation in a hockey stop is very balanced and easy to modulate. The tipping of the free foot to it's LTE acts like a rudder on a boat and you can dial in as much rotation as you want. (this is not diverging the tips btw)

This is why Si can look at the skier shots pictured as say Lift and Tip because he knows how much torque the phantom move can generate while others look with surprise and chagrin and think Si is off his rocker.

Now lets look at the other way to generate rotation. The active rotate in the hip sockets rotation like you do in a braking wedge. If you're skiing parallel and do this move, say a turn towards your right, your left leg rotates right and your right leg rotates right. But your body is still where it was. The skis that were lined up at right angles to your hips are not ofset from that angle. This is the type of active rotation that HH just doesn't see as being part of high performance skiing. It's like turning the wheel on a bicycle without leaning for the resultant turn. It disrupts balance.

A PMTS skier knows that you can just tip the right foot laterally toward's it's LTE and you both pull the body that direction so it's ready for the G-forces of the turn and the left leg in this case will follow and match the tipping. Tip more than the carve requires and you can easily skid and do more rotation than the skis can carve. Eski mentions this tip to LTE even in things like chutes to mange the air hop because this creates and manages the rotation while also positioning the body in the proper placement for the landing. John Clendenon eschews active rotation, but will teach both the phantom move (doesn't call it that) and also techniques for fore/aft balance shifts to create/manage rotation needs in a balanced fashion.

This type of passive rotation makes any desired amount of hip to leg angles for counter etc very easy to manage and control since you are not tyring to both stay skeletally stacked (co-contracted muscles) while trying to actively rotate those same muscles (which is restricted in the presence of co-contraction anyway).

One of the intriguing things about the waist-steering threads is it also mentions an o-frame and a passive rotation component while maintaining strong balance. When you tip the inside foot strongly to the LTE there is a tightening of the oblique abs on that side. When I get on a slope with someone that can show me these waist-steerning moves there may be some level of similarity at least in the idea that you can power all the rotation you need but with indirect and balanced means rather than just simply rotating your femurs in your hip sockets.

I should mention that some people play with the phantom move they read in Eski's book and try the drills and nothing happens. The need for some co-contraction tension in the hip-rotator cups in imperative for anything to happen with this move. If you're a limp fish in your hips, there is no kinetic chain in place. You are disconnected. Sorry to say the emphasis on active rotation of the hip femurs trains people to not have co-contracted hips and thus exclude them for experiencing this style of skiing.